[SI-LIST] Re: Accounting random jitter
- From: "Plesa, James T." <james.plesa@xxxxxxx>
- To: <ray.anderson@xxxxxxxxxx>, <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <edpc108@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 15:19:33 -0500
Ray,=20
I agree 100%. I incorrectly implied that SPICE .noise could coexist with
a time-domain simulation; but it can't.
And while Monte Carlo might with some effort give a value for the eye
opening, it won't display an eye in the time domain.
And since as Scott said SPICE is deterministic, it doesn't include
time-domain noise even in the simulation of noise generators for which
it has rms noise models, such as zener diodes.=20
If I was stuck with only a SPICE simulator I could represent (with
considerable difficulty) an eye diagram of sorts using multiple sources;
but only for purposes of display, as I would more or less need to know
the answer beforehand in order to design such a simulation.
I would defer to Scott's list of tools suited to random time-domain
processes.
Jim Plesa
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Ray Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 1:34 PM
To: Plesa, James T.; scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; edpc108@xxxxxxxxx
Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Ray Anderson
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Accounting random jitter
I always thought the .noise function in spice merely determined the
total RMS noise contribution of the various circuit components
(resistive and active) whose noise performance could either be
calculated or was specified. It isn't obvious to me that this function
can be used to inject jitter into a time domain simulation.
Can spice's Monte Carlo statistical capabilities be applied to the zero
crossings of a voltage source? I've always thought that it could only
statistically vary component values.
On the other hand one could probably generate a random noise voltage and
sum it with a reference voltage in a comparator to cause random jitter
on the output of the comparator. Alternatively, the random noise source
could be used to modulate a behavioral VCO clock source. This basically
emulates some techniques that can be applied to physical test equipment
in the lab.
-Ray
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Plesa, James T.
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 11:00 AM
To: scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; edpc108@xxxxxxxxx
Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Accounting random jitter
Most or all SPICE simulators that I have used have included .NOISE
analysis and Monte-Carlo analysis, either of which would seem suited to
introducing eye-diagram jitter.=3D3D20
Jim Plesa
Northrop Grumman Corp.=3D3D20
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Scott McMorrow
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 12:45 PM
To: edpc108@xxxxxxxxx
Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Accounting random jitter
Jayaprakash
Unfortunately, no. SPICE is a deterministic simulator and does not
simulate stochasic (random) processes. You will need something like
Agilent ADS, Ansoft Designer, StatEye, or roll-your-own Matlab code to
integrate random noise into your simulations.=3D3D20
regards,
Scott
Scott McMorrow
Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
121 North River Drive
Narragansett, RI 02882
(401) 284-1827 Business
(401) 284-1840 Fax
http://www.teraspeed.com
Teraspeed(r) is the registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting
Group LLC
Jayaprakash wrote:
>Hi,
>
> Is there a std. way to include/account random jitter effects in =3D
a=3D3D20
>typical eye diagram simulation in SPICE?
>
> Thanks and regards,
> Jayaprakash.=3D3D20
>
>
> =3D3D09
>___________________________________________________________
>How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps =3D
for=3D3D20
>FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
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