[SI-LIST] Re: AW: Re: About agilent PLTS-AFR
- From: <heidi_barnes@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <taoye000@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 10:12:27 -0600
As Steve W. points out the idea is simple, but the details of splitting a
"symmetric" (mirrored about the reference plane) 2 times the fixture length
through path can get quite complicated when working with complex phase and
magnitude data as well as non-ideal data,... so one does need to think about
how much NRE engineering time it would take to re-invent the wheel.
As for alternative approaches to play with, I am always pleasantly surprised
with how far one can go with Eric Bogatin's technique of "Hacking the Back
Plane" and tuning short transmission line segments to recreate the
discontinuities in the time domain and the losses and phase in the frequency
domain. Using this technique with a 2x through path does make it easy to cut
in half. However, I would always recommend adding an additional series
resonant broadband "Beatty standard" in addition to the 2x through for
additional verification of the fixture de-embedding quality.
Also, Eric Bogatin is chairing an "EMC and SI University" educational tutorial
at the IEEE EMC in Denver, August 7-11th, and the presentation on "How Good is
Your SI Simulator" will cover the importance of fixture de-embedding, accurate
as-fabricated design properties, and the use of the Beatty Standard structure:
http://www.emc2013.org/index.php?id=293
Good luck with the splitting,
Heidi
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Havermann, Gert
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 11:52 PM
To: taoye000@xxxxxxxxx; Weston Beal (wbeal)
Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] AW: Re: About agilent PLTS-AFR
I tried this some time ago and failed. The biggest problem was the window
function.
Details: I converted the S-parameters to time domain and then applied a
windowing filter to select the start and end of the DUT. Then I converted the
time domain data back into S-parameters. The problem for me was, that I
couldn't use a rectangular window function as the fourier transformation
wouldn't work afterwards. I also found that different window functions had to
be used for different problem types to get meaningful results.
In the end there was not enough time to dig deeper into that.
The theory of fixture removal has been presented in two different DesignCon
papers:
DC2007: A Novel Procedure for Characterization of Multi-port High Speed
Balanced Devices (samtec, ultimetrix)
DC2009: A Comparison of Fixture Removal Methods for Characterization of
Differential PCB Channels (Agilent)
BR
Gert
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-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] Im
Auftrag von ye tao
Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. Juli 2013 03:40
An: Weston Beal (wbeal)
Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Betreff: [SI-LIST] Re: About agilent PLTS-AFR
Sorry，You misunderstood what I said，The important is not de-embed.
If we get the half S-param ,we can de-embed with measure data.
But, How to split one S-param to half is trouble me. I want to know this
Method based on what algorithm.
2013/7/1 Weston Beal (wbeal) <wbeal@xxxxxxxxxx>
> ADS has a component to do this on a limited scale. It is limited to 2
> or 4 ports. Look at the de-embed component, and read the ADS documentation.
>
> Weston
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of ye tao
> Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 12:59 AM
> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] About agilent PLTS-AFR
>
> Hello Experts:
> I know in the PLTS2013£¬have AFR(Automatic Fixture Removal)
> £¬it is better than TRL.
> But, I want to do it in ADS or Matlab environment, is it impossible?
>
> I read some paper, but I can¡¯t find the theory of AFR. The most
> important thing is split the S-parament to half.
>
> I think it need to covert freq domin to time domin,and cut off , then
> covert time domin to freq domin. This way can split the S-parament to half?
> Is it right?
>
> Who can help me? Thanks
>
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