[SI-LIST] Re: A question about the temperature keyword of ibis model
- From: "Muranyi, Arpad" <Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 07:15:31 -0700
Sorry for the auto spell typo.
It should read:
"It is up to the model maker to select the correct number for it, whether this
is
done in SPICE or in the lab. "
Arpad
=================================
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 9:10 AM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: A question about the temperature keyword of ibis model
You all seem to be missing the point with the temperature keyword in IBIS.
The IBIS temperature keyword is there to indicate what temperature was used
when the data was extracted from the SPICE simulation (or lab measurement).
It is up to the model maker to select the correct number for it, whether this is
doesn't in SPICE or in the lab. The model maker should know what value
represents
typical conditions for the device they are modeling, but this really doesn't
matter
all that much. The meaning of the IBIS temperature is simply that the model's
data was generated at these temperatures (typ/min/max).
Arpad
============================================================
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Bill Martin
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:37 AM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: A question about the temperature keyword of ibis model
Calculating accurate die temp requires many factors (die size, operating
temps, specific package used, airflow, pcb, etc). the link below can shed
provide info on this.
http://www.datasheetarchive.com/datasheet-pdf/02/DSA0023375.html
regards,
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of steve weir
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 6:28 AM
To: Benny Yan
Cc: gezi; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: [inquiry] A question about the temperature keyword of
ibis model
Reading through the thread more carefully, I see I misinterpreted
Benny's posts for Gezi's as asking whether 50C is a universal typical
temperature. Rereading I see he was questioning whether Gezi's 50C value
is really representative of nominal, and instructing Gezi to place
whatever the actual expected nominal die operating temperature turns out
to be in the typical temperature field.
Please accept my apologies for any confusion.
Steve.
steve weir wrote:
> There is no such thing as: your typical die temperature. As a matter of
> application some devices are pushed much harder than others. Many die
> operate at or above 100C.
>
> Steve.
> Benny Yan wrote:
>
>> I would ask whether 50 degree is your typical die temperature, no matter
under what temperature your device will be typically (ambient temperature)
used.
>> If the typical die temperature is 50 degree, use it as the typical
temperature in IBIS, as well as during IBIS modeling.
>> 25 degree for typical corner defined in IBIS spec is not absolute.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gezi [mailto:gezi.zhang@xxxxxxxxxx]
>> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 4:54 PM
>> To: Benny Yan; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: ´ð¸´: [SI-LIST] Re: [inquiry] A question about the temperature
keyword of ibis model
>>
>> Hi Benny,
>>
>> If we generate ibis model from spice simulation, the device is
typically
>> used
>>
>> under 25 degree Celsius. But we shall do the spice simulation and mark
the
>> ibis's
>>
>> temperature using real die temperature. But I find the typical
temperature
>> in
>>
>> the ibis model is 25 degree Celsius. What's wrong?
>>
>>
>>
>> -----ÓʼþÔ¼þ-----
>> ·¢¼þÈË: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> ´ú±í Benny Yan
>> ·¢ËÍʱ¼ä: 2010Äê3ÔÂ22ÈÕ 16:39
>> ÊÕ¼þÈË: gezi; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Ö÷Ìâ: [SI-LIST] Re: [inquiry] A question about the temperature keyword of
>> ibis model
>>
>> 50 degree Celsius.
>> [Temperature Range] Usage Rules: List the actual die temperatures (not
>> percentages) in the typ,
>> min, max format. "NA" is allowed for
min
>> and max only.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Benny
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gezi [mailto:gezi.zhang@xxxxxxxxxx]
>> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 4:30 PM
>> To: Benny Yan; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: ´ð¸´: [SI-LIST] Re: [inquiry] A question about the temperature
>> keyword of ibis model
>>
>> Hi Yanzhi,
>>
>> What temperture should I mark in the ibis model? 25 degree or 50 degree?
>>
>> -----ÓʼþÔ¼þ-----
>> ·¢¼þÈË: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> ´ú±í Benny Yan
>> ·¢ËÍʱ¼ä: 2010Äê3ÔÂ22ÈÕ 16:22
>> ÊÕ¼þÈË: gezi; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Ö÷Ìâ: [SI-LIST] Re: [inquiry] A question about the temperature keyword of
>> ibis model
>>
>> Gezi,
>>
>> IBIS spec defines the temperature at die, so you should use 50 degree in
>> this case.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
>> Behalf Of gezi
>> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 2:57 PM
>> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [SI-LIST] [inquiry] A question about the temperature keyword of
>> ibis model
>>
>> I would like to ask a question about the temperature keyword of ibis
>> model. Is the temperature ambient temperature or die temperature? For
>> example,
>>
>>
>>
>> A device is used under room temperature 25 degree. Under this
temperature,
>> the die temperature is properly 50 degree. I would generate IBIS data
from
>> spice simulation.
>>
>>
>>
>> Will I use 50 degree to generate the ibis data?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
--
Steve Weir
IPBLOX, LLC
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