Those are some great choices... Let me just throw a few more to that list...
but as always, do your homework and choose wisely based on your unique
requirements...
Mentor/Siemens HyperLynx Power Integrity - (DC for PCB)
https://mentor.com/pcb/hyperlynx/power-integrity/ ;
Mentor/Siemens HyperLynx Fast 3D Solver - (DC for PKG)
https://mentor.com/pcb/hyperlynx/fast-3d-solver/ ;
Mentor/Siemens HyperLynx Hybrid Solver - (DC for PCB and PKG)
https://mentor.com/pcb/hyperlynx/full-wave-solver/ ;
But circling back to the original question of... "Are 3D field solvers...
accurate at DC?"
Purely speaking in general terms... traditional 3D field solvers are best
equipped to handle and deal with time-varying EM fields... and as such... when
time stops to vary or goes static.... ie. when frequency goes to zero... the
entire solution becomes numerically unstable. So the short answer is No...
So as Stephen mentions... 3D field solvers will try to solve near DC but will
stay just outside of DC...
Exact DC or F=0 is best handled by a true DC solver where nothing else matters
but DC Resistance. So many commercial tools will solve DC with a true DC
solver... and then solve AC with its traditional 3D field solver... and then
glue the two solutions together to form the full broadband solution.
Now, I suppose if you ONLY care about DC and for high-power DC applications
then Thermal should become part of your concern... and then this becomes a
multi-physics problem.... as Joel alluded to...
Again, this is a general description of how the problem is handled but there
may be other *unique* techniques out there that I'm not thinking of at the
moment...
Stay safe and healthy!
Regards,
Chase
___________________________________________________
Signal and Power Integrity | Mentor, A Siemens Business | Boston, USA
+1-508-565-8080
yun_chase@xxxxxxxxxx
https://support.sw.siemens.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On ;
Behalf Of Cristian Gozzi
Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:55 PM
To: rawilson@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: 3D Field solvers for DC analysis
At PCB level you can use the following ones as an example these are 2.5D or 3D
FEM DC solver so the resistance is correct ;-)
ANSYS SIwave-DC
https://www.ansys.com/products/electronics/power-integrity/ansys-siwave-dc-for-power-integrity-analysis
Cadence Power-DC
https://www.cadence.com/en_US/home/tools/ic-package-design-and-analysis/si-pi-analysis-point-tools/sigrity-powerdc.html
for PKG with 3D level of accuracy, you can see at
ANSYS Q3D
https://www.ansys.com/products/electronics/ansys-q3d-extractor
Cadence XtractIM
https://www.cadence.com/en_US/home/tools/ic-package-design-and-analysis/si-pi-analysis-point-tools/sigrity-xtractim.html
there are other similar EDA tools in the market....
you can also check with Keysight tools
I hope this help
Regards
Cris
On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 4:12 PM Ralph Wilson <rawilson@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
All,
We're looking at some high current power applications where milli-ohms
can make a difference in heat, voltage loss, system performance, etc.
Since we're trying to split hairs (let's ignore for this discussion
how accurate the model itself may be) we've been considering different
approaches to the simulation. We, of course, have DC solvers in hand,
but there has also been suggestions about using 3D field solvers.
I have this gut level distrust of these 3D field solvers at DC - is
this distrust warranted?
Are the field solvers out there accurate at DC? My experience with
them has previously been restricted to S-parameter generation for
vias, connectors, etc.
where we're worried
about the high frequency effects. Most of these S-parameters have a
low frequency cut-off.
I think this is where my distrust comes from.
So, the bottom line question is, are 3D field solvers (generally, or
any in particular) accurate at DC? And, (really the same question) is
it worth pursuing 3D modeling/3D simulations for a high current power
application?
Thanks!
Ralph Wilson
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