In a message dated 3/18/2005 8:51:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, uwish@xxxxxxxxxx writes: > I agree with Chuck. You don't have to feel for shoulder. Either they > have it, or they don't. If you can't see it when they are moving, all > the feeling of the bone structure in the world is not going to change > it.. I agree and disagree. One of the important duties of a judge is to never stop learning or putting what he/she has learned to use. When evaluating dogs I always feel how close the shoulder blades come together which is an indication of the length of the scapula. I have never called a class on this information. But especially in the case of young dogs. A young animal with a good shoulder angulation but a short scapula will move excellent in the forehand but as he/she matures the muscle/ligaments bulk up and load the front and will take away the freedom of motion. The good angulation with a long scapula will not tend to do this. [ We are assuming the upper arm is correct on these two dogs ] So if I had two dogs all other thing being equal I would put the dog with the longer scapula up. I cannot remember in 39 years of judging this situation happening BUT if it does I'm ready.<G> Fred Migliore ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================