Very interesting discussion. Many years ago, at a pre show party at a specialty show weekend ( yes, the judges for the following shows were there), a group of us were discussing much the same as phenotype vs genotype. The group included such breeders as Lloyd Brackett, Ginny McCoy, Ralph Roberts, Hall Keys, and others. The concensus of this group was that it was the grandparents that breeders must look at most closely, both in regard to phenotype and genotype. The picture of H's Caisson Avalon brought this discussion to my mind as when I saw his picture on that site, it could have been a picture of my Boss son, CH. Kennadale's Excite . Interesting...... Carolyn Carolyn McKenna 361-293-5389 ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================