[ SHOWGSD-L ] from someone who's dealt with Mycoplasma
- From: Peggy <pmick@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: ShowGSD-L <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 22:39:58 -0500
shared by Peggy
This is a note from a friend who has dealt with mycoplasma...of course,
I realize not everyone has access to Cornell, but there are other Vet
Schools in the country who can probably give the same service.
Peggy
I can only tell you about what I discovered in my bitches all those
years ago. Recently I have had a bitch not conceive for two consecutive
breedings after having had two litters of 5 puppies with no problems. I
checked her for mycoplasma which was negative. I took her back and
checked her for a C&S (culture and sensitivity) and she had - well,
actually, I don't recall exactly what she had but we put her on the
appropriate meds and bred her again - I think she's pregnant. The moral
of the story is that if you check for Mycoplasma, ALWAYS do a C&S at the
same time.
It does NOT take 3-4 weeks to tell if a dog has Mycoplasma. It is true
that some labs are not good at growing it - apparently it is fairly
delicate to grow and it has to be kept in ideal conditions. Cornell is
the best place to send it. It should arrive there on Wed or Thursday in
order to be set up immediately. If you have it arrive on Friday or over
the weekend, it will sit and you could get a false negative result.
Cornell's protocol has changed a bit over the years so you might want
to contact them as to how to collect for Mycoplasma and how to ship. It
used to be overnight in a cool pack - sterile swab of as far up the
vaginal area as possible. I think it is still something like this but
check.
Jean Dodds states (and heaven knows, the woman is brilliant so I hate to
say she's wrong!) that ideally the swab should be done between seasons.
My recent one was done at this time, not sent to Cornell, results
negative. I feel that unless this bitch had both Mycoplasma as well as
the bug they found, the lab was probably right that she was Mycoplasma
neg since she is now pregnant having been placed on the appropriate
meds. (I WILL find out what bug it was - it is annoying me that I
cannot recall - as the meds was an unusual one to have her on so you
should know this). Anyway, the reason I say that I hesitatingly say
that I do not agree with Jean Dodds as stated above, is that the very
first bitch of mine who had Mycoplasma heavy growth which disallowed her
to get pregnant so many years ago, was placed on first erythromycin - no
change. Then on Chloro - negative for Mycoplasma. She came in season
and we checked her when she was IN SEASON - heavy, heavy growth
mycoplasma. The vet told me that she thought the Chloro had taken care
of the vaginal area but did not penetrate deep into the uterus so when
she came in season, all the mycoplasma started spilling out of the
uterus. We then put her on Baytril and that cleared it up enough for
her to get pregnant. I did not re-check her at all after that - I
simply placed her on 3-4 weeks of Baytril immediately before she was due
in season. When she came in season, I took her off it and bred her.
She had 5-6 puppies each time after not having any puppies at all for
2 years. Having said that, I had a situation reasonably recently where
a puppy was born kinda mummified. I took the bitch in to have her
mycoplasma checked but the vet told me that it will likely be sent back
as they cannot locate the mycoplasma with all the discharge from the
birth - and that's exactly what happened. Again, I did not send it to
Cornell. Personally, I just do not understand why this would be the
case as they have to GROW mycoplasma. Bottom line - best to send it to
Cornell if you really do suspect mycoplasma. I did not really suspect
it but wanted to check anyway. Never did get an answer and the bitch
has now had another litter so she should be okay and if it was
mycoplasma, she would not have become pregnant.
I DO think Mycoplasma comes back although I cannot guarantee that
because my original bitch with the heavy growth was bred successfully, I
did not bother checking her again - just kept giving her the Baytril
prior to breeding her. She only had one other litter anyway so there
was no point except for my own info. Nowadays, Mycoplasma tests are
about $100 or more. It can get costly. I suppose if it does come
back, it probably cannot be "cured" for life with antibiotics but
Baytril can keep it at a dull roar, enough to get the bitch pregnant and
a viable litter of puppies. Keep in mind that with low growth or even
medium growth Mycoplasma the bitch can still conceive and produce a
normal litter.
I do not believe the animal needs to be removed from a breeding program.
Yes, perhaps when the animal with mycoplasma heavy growth sits down
outside and another bitch in season sits down on top of it or the
infected bitch is bred and then that male is bred to another bitch, it
could probably spread like wildfire in a multi dog environment however
males usually (unless they happen to have a slightly compromised immune
system) do not have a sterility problem with Mycoplasma - they may
however harbor it and there is no question that a male could pass it
along to a bitch. In fact, a repro specialist stated that a male can
transfer bacteria to a bitch which in turn could send them into a pyo -
probably a bitch with a compromised immune system too - but it CAN happen.
I liken the problem with Mycoplasma with intestinal parasites in multi
dog families. With all the number of dogs I have plus the boarding dogs
that come and go, I have had some worm issues. I have a microscope and
slides and flotation things and yes, I could check stools but, quite
frankly, it is just easier to keep deworming them. I have found that if
I keep deworming them with Panacur 3 times a year, eventually the cycle
is broken and it keeps the worming problem down. Then I stop worming
quite so often and still no worms but eventually I'll get them back
again via the numbers of dogs. We pick up daily obviously but it's
difficult with multiple dogs as you must know. The same is true with
Mycoplasma. I got to the stage that I was simply estimating when the
bitches were due in season, counting back 4 weeks in the event they came
in early, and starting them on Baytril. I took a 60mcg tablet and
quartered them - good for a 15 lb dog. Maybe a little low dosage for
the 17 - 20 lbs bitches but I don't have many of those - nonetheless, it
seemed to work. I got large litters and they did not miss. Now I don't
do that - I have had two bitches miss so I may have to go back to it.
It just gets so expensive to check for Mycoplasma - not only that, but
I worry about false negative and false positive results so I would
insist on it going to Cornell if I was really worried about it. Easier
just to start them on Baytril. So that's what I do from time to time.
This past bitch, mind you ,STILL did not become preganant - hence I
checked C&S.
I must say though, some years ago my vet called to ask this following
question. Had I seen any bitches have viable litters then at 4 yrs
never have any further litters? I had not at that time. Interestingly,
she was referring to a breeder client with GSDs. Mother dog had two
viable litters, now at over 4 yrs, cannot get her preganant again.
Daughter did exactly the same thing. Now this is the same vet who
helped me with my original bitch with mycoplasma so I felt she was
pretty much on the ball with repro issues - plus she was a breeder
herself at that time.
So, the bottom line, after all this long explanation, is to be sure the
male is fertile, the bitch is being bred at the RIGHT time and if all
that is ideal and still no puppies, then do a C&S, start her on an
antibiotic if there is a heavy growth bug in the C&S results, if not,
then start the Baytril for a good 3 -4 weeks, take her off as soon as
she comes in season, breed her and see what happens. I know of another
vet who always puts his bitches on Amoxi after the Baytril for about 3
weeks into her preganancy. I have not necessarily done that but I
suppose it wouldn't hurt.
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