WHY are people so upset at the thought of by products? My friend RW (who is an animal nutritionist and behaviorist) made some very good points. In the wild, everything that can be consumed by a predator, is. Eyeballs, brains, bones, anuses, lips. The only things left behind are bones that are too big, and a few clumps of hair. Paul opines... In the wild...with a pack...the Alpha male and bitch eat first. They eat gut and muscle. As the rest of the pack feeds...in pack order...when it gets to the Omega dog (bottom of the pack)...that dog eats the equivalent of by-products and is lucky to get any meat at all. The Omega dog always looks and is in the worst condition of any dog in the pack. The Alpha animals always are in the best condition and that condition is maintained as you go down in pack order. Only the fittest and best conditioned animals are allowed to reproduce. Chicken By-Product meal is beaks, feet, heads, and feathers not to exceed 10% (AAFCO min requirements). That is not quality protein. Our dogs do not have to endure the rigors of the wild so they can exist on low quality protein. It's not the quantity of the protein that causes problems...it's the quality. In the wild the Alpha animals eat almost a 95% protein diet but the quality of the protein is excellent. I say "Shame on the Manufacturers" who use such low quality ingredients and charge a Premium price. As many of you know...we feed our dogs a raw diet but some of the geriatric guys get some kibble. We feed Canidae (Human Grade) but there are other good kibbles. We sell it here at the kennel and charge $29.95 for a 40 lb. bag. We feed the kennel dogs Kirkland Chicken or Lamb and Rice we get at Costco for $15 for a 40 lb. bag. It is manufactured by Diamond here locally, but their quality control is very good. It's truly a shame they've had the recent problems as I consider Diamond one of the most reputable companies around. They tell the truth on their labels and don't try and bait and switch like some of the other manufacturers. I do have a real problem with by-products because they are not good for our dogs. It's so easy to feed a quality diet to your animals that is by-product free. JMO...as always... Paul ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================