I tend to agree with Fred here. I have kept two bitches from a litter and one will be one heck of a producer and the other one just adequate and it isn't always the best one. The one thing that has been consistant is that the dams of the good producers were also good producers themselves. Ann, in snowy blizzardy Michigan with 4 inches on the ground and no end in sight. www.geocities.com/edangsd EKOLAN1@xxxxxxx wrote:In a message dated 12/22/2004 6:41:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, helen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes: > I would never argue with Fred because he is 99% perfect. However, I am a > STRONG believer in litter mates. Give me the dog that is out of a litter of > a 5 Champion litter versus a gorgeous Champion with pet quality littermates. > A strong phenotype is best demonstrated by the entire litter. Dogs do > produce their littermates (in my humble opinion) and the better the entire > litter, the better your chances of actually getting what you see. > Helen Franklin > > Then how do you explain Troll.And his litter? Lance did not have male litter mates. But they repeated the breeding that produced Lance he had brothers they were not great producers. they also were not as good as Lance. The F litter Arbywood 6 Champions Great litter Ch Ferd was probably the least of the 6 he did not produce anything like Lance. There was an old saying among the old-time Breeders ' Like begets like Quality begets quality' the saying WASN'T like pedigrees begets Quality. Respectably Fred PS.I love you ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2004. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2004. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================