[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Question about black and white
- From: Karen M. Carloni <kmc@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 15:41:57 -0500
I wrote,
> Since white is carried at a completely different location
> on the chromosome, I believe you are correct Barb. If both
> solid black parents also carry for white, you could get
> white pups in an otherwise solid black litter. Or not.
On Thu, 30 Jan 2014 17:53:25 -0800, "Carolyn Martello"
<marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>IF black is a DOUBLE recessive...how could they carry a white gene?
>Since white is a "masking" gene...I don't totally understand that to
>really answer or know the correct answer.
It's easy, really, but a bit difficult to understand if
you think of all coat "colors" in dogs as being the same.
They are not.
GSD color genes such as black or sable are carried at the
"A" locus, while the white masking gene -- like the genes
for blue and liver -- is carried at a completely different
location on the chromosome. Where "white" is concerned, I
won't speak to that since people have multiple theories
about where, exactly, that location is. To be honest, it
doesn't matter anyway. Just suffice it to say that "white"
is not a normal "color" gene. Thus, it is carried and
passed along independently of those normal (sable, black,
black and tan, etc.) color genes.
>BUT...since you brought it up.... <G>
<G>
>No one really knows the "real" color of a white since it is masked??
>You might see a white dog...but it could be a "masked" liver or blue..
Well, yes and no. ... Possibly. ;) Since liver and blue
are legitimate "dilution" genes -- again, carried and
inherited separately and apart from the usual colors of
black and tan or whatever -- you could, possibly, tell
them under a white coat by looking closely at the color of
the dog's skin pigment and eye color. A liver dog cannot
have any black pigment on the body whatsoever. So a white
masked liver would tend to have lighter than normal eyes
(hazel or very light brown), and a brown nose, eye rims
and paw pads. Similarly, a white masked blue dog should
have steel gray skin and not the true-black skin pigment
of a non-dilute dog.
Many white GSDs will exhibit "snow" nose (very commonly
seen), and some can have somewhat spotty pigment on nose
and/or eye rims. But the skin color, where you can see it
clearly, should always be black -- never gray or brown --
and their eyes should always be as dark brown as possible.
As I think Lee pointed out, two solid blacks -- if they
both possessed the same genes for dilution -- could
possibly produce blue or liver dogs, and for the same
reason as white: all of these genes are carried and
inherited separately from the normal GSD color genes.
Just as with the white masking gene, you'd be hard-pressed
to tell if a dog is carrying for dilution unless you knew
the color pedigree cold... and maybe not even then. The
problem with the white masking gene is that you can't see
what's under the white... unless the white is actually
masking a dilute. The problem with dilutes is that you
can't see them at any time, under any color, unless you
know they are in the pedigree and/or one happens to pop
out unexpectedly. Such is the nature of recessive genes.
>even a Panda or blue merle for all we know. Isn't that correct???
Last time I looked it up, the "M" Merling gene (an
incompletely dominant trait) existed in the background of
the dogs that evolved into the GSD breed a looooong time
ago (think: Von Stephanitz's time), but no longer exists
in the modern-day GSD gene pool.
The panda gene, I have no real knowledge of except for the
fact that panda breeders used white GSDs extensively in
the development of the Panda strain. If I had to guess,
I'd say "panda" is a form of the spotting gene... again,
inherited differently and independently from the "normal"
GSD color genes. If people stay diligent about limiting
the amount of white spotting on their breeding dogs to as
little as possible, you should probably be okay.
Don't shoot me, but I'm sort of 'in like' with the Pandas
I've seen! Then again, I've always been a complete
*sucker* for that loud, tri-color pattern on a dog. It's
not correct for a GSD, but it is attractive. Oh my! ;0
--
Karen C.
Email: kmc@xxxxxxxxxxxx
---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection
is active.
http://www.avast.com
============================================================================
POST is Copyrighted 2014. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its
administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in
any post.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:
http://showgsd.org/mail.html
NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/
============================================================================
Other related posts:
