I have been watching the various threads and here is what I see from a different perspective. Coming from a different breed, getting into GSDs was an eye opener. Although, I came across as a know-it-all in the beginning and got blasted a couple of times I realized that I needed to put my other experiences aside and treat my learning of the GSD as a novice person would - ask questions, sit back and listen, talk to many breeders, not feel obligated to one and absorb as much information as I possibly could (can). I needed to stop acting like the successful breeder and instead, become the newbie... After I changed my attitude, I found the breeders to be awesome to talk to and ask questions of. I am not sure that Sara was being smug, but she is trying to carry a logical, educated conversation. She's obviously done some research on both the American-style show dogs and the Working dog lines. I cannot even imagine being tugged on both sides. She asks good questions and the responses for the most part have been very educational for the rest of us sitting on the sidelines.. It also gives me a new perspective of how we should ALL be treating new folks. Showing dogs is a dying sport and if we keep "assuming" everyone is in it looking for ammunition, we are going to completely destroy ourselves and our hobby that we love so much. I also think her questions have provided interesting topics on the list. Although I really enjoyed the historical stuff, it is also interesting to see how breeders react to newbies and respond to their questions. Re: temperaments and angulation - my dogs are not heavily angulated and I have had lots of comments about the fact that they don't look like "other American dogs". What does that tell you... We as dog show folks/breeders may not fault all the angulation, but since there is no other breed built like the GSD, the more angulation the rear, the more the public is going to notice it. No other breed has that profile or carriage.. We are always going to have to "explain" it. My Dalmatian friends all wanted to know too (and these include the President of DCA and several breeder judges) about the sloping toplines and rears.. They of course, could understand it when explained, but we really need to watch what we say with the general public.. Make it easy. Temperaments are my biggest groan, although they have gotten decidedly better through the years - doubling does cause problems because it does get the dogs wound up and they do often try to drag handlers out of the ring, can't stand quietly at ringside or are screaming in crates. If doubling were done away with at all-breeds, the appearance of the temperaments would be so much better.. JMHO and I am pretty sure man people will disagree with me :-) BTW: Don't forget about the Facebook Stud Dog list.. I will be working on it the next few evenings trying to get caught up. If you want to submit a dog, email me :-). If you want to update your information, email me again :-) Jessica MacMillan No Frills Dog Bathing Service & Design Paisley Dals (www.paisleydals.com) & The Shepherd Girls (Simmie, CGC, TDI, TC, HIC & Pepper, HIC) Member of: DCA, GSDCA & GTCDC Blog: http://mylittleblogspot.myblogsite.com/ Manager of: The Dalmatian Stud Dog List on Facebook The German Shepherd Stud Dog List on Facebook ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2011. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================