Both you and the gentleman of whom (that is how you use it Ed) you spoke are very wise. I still can't tear myself away from this subculture and family. sheila David Fritsche <d_fritsche@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: This has been a very stimulating week on the list and I've enjoyed both the weekend shows and coming home to a stimulating list.... Just thought I might try and recap it all! I've told this story before but it is worth repeating. I watched the fellow at ring side for several minutes. He was intently watching the show but I did not recognize him, so I approached, introduced myself and asked him if he was an exhibitor or just observing. He explained that he was just walking in the park, had seen the canopies and had come over to see what was going on. He lived locally and did not have a German Shepherd. Then, he began to probe! "Those people going into the ring with the dog, they are usually the same each class. Do they own all those dogs or are they handlers?" I explained that they are just the handlers. "Then the owners are those people outside the ring who are attempting to get the dogs attention?" He asked. I said that he was right and commented on his keen sense of observation. "Do they pay the handlers to do this?" he continued. I affirmed that they did. He continued, "Do you have many dog shows in a month? do you do this every week-end?" I explained that we did have a lot of shows on a regular basis, but not quite every week-end. "And do the same people show up at each show with the same dogs?" He asked. "Mostly" I replied, and explained, sometimes we bring different dogs to different judges, etc.. "So the shows are mostly the same dogs and same people and same handlers, but different judges?" I agreed. "And where do you get your judges? They must certainly be familiar with your breed. Do they also come from your group?" I laughed and affirmed his observations. "Then," he asked, "How do you keep it honest? I see the need for doing it that way, but you are an inbred subculture and I would bet that those who loose would see the tight relationships of your subculture as an excuse for loosing." I was floored by the string of questions and of his power to perceive both our cultural relationships and the issue of credibility. Without the knowledgeable judge, we do not value their opinion, but in that they come from within, we can doubt their honor. In our breed, it is a particular problem in that we ARE an "inbred subculture." Meaning - we want judges who are knowledgeable about the breed, so we select them from breeders. We also get handlers from our own ranks for similar reasons: knowledge of the breed. So, we, as a group, "culture," if you will, have a circular relationship. Our friends, associations, business dealings, breedings, judging, handling, traveling, etc., etc. all involve the same people. If we set the ideal context: Judges will not judge a dog they have seen before or for an owner they know or who has a handler they are friends with, or who is campaigning a dog. Judges will not campaign a dog or breed a litter while they are accepting judging assignments. Handlers will not handle for judges or accept points from judges they have eaten with in the past 10 years. Dogs will be drug tested, judges will take a lie detector test after each show and handlers will be shot if they attempt to get the judges attention to their dog. Result: No judges, handler, breeders, shows, friends, or dinners together. So, we do not opt for this sense of relational distance, but rely on the long traditions of our sport and the honor of our relationships. The problem is: This is politics. Yes, it is! But hold on - let me explain..... We use the term "politics" and "political" most often to denote something conniving and evil. But politics is simply the way in which a group of people relate. It involves our structures, laws that come from those structures, and also the unwritten rules that develop that, although not encoded, are none the less present with any group. Thus, our nation and its privileges is based on our political system. We elect people to represent us and to make our nation, our state, our county and our cities safe and prosperous. Similarly, we have a system of relationships within our dog show culture. That is neither evil or wrong. It just is! Structures by which we do our "inbred subculture" are not evil, although people can be evil and use the system for unintended purposes. Yes, in that right - politics is part of what we do. It is OK to have freinds, form relationships and for that to accompany our tour of weekend dog shows together. It is OK to make rules, set a standard, select judges and have a B-B-Q together. Do we risk 'the appearance of evil?' Of course! Do we hear about evil in our sport? Never...., Er, I meant to say - of course. What happened over the past few days here in our 'family' is a good thing. We discussed our relationships and how we do things. We challenged some assumptions and affirmed our structures. We 'did politics!' It will not do away with the perception of evil that will occasionally surface in our sport, because of necessity we are, as my observer friend named us, an "inbred sub-culture." Our realities are different, person to person. Our perceptions are different. Our realities are diverse. Our expectations run the gambit from rose colored glasses to critic. It's all part of getting a bunch of people together for a common purpose. It's the politics of it all. So, let's show dogs. Anyone want to borrow my rose colored glasses????????????? Dave ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues ============================================================================ Sheila of Miami Mernydex GSD's Loving Obedience Dog Training --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger?s low PC-to-Phone call rates. ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues ============================================================================