[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: FOR THE RECORD (was TOM LANGLITZ SAYS)
- From: acorreia1043@xxxxxxxxxxx
- To: mgolant@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx (showgsd-l)
- Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 03:19:46 +0000
Proof! It's gonna be hard to swallow for some. Good post Margy.
Have a good time at the National!
Tony C
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Margery Golant" <mgolant@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Our Club is in a tailspin, and not surprisingly, the same issues and forces
> are playing out on the List.
> Back in the old days, when the List was smaller and there was less toxicity
> in the air, the Administration used to step in and shut down threads when
> topics became very angry and heated, because that was inconsistent with the
> general tone of the List. Tom did that, as did the rest of us. Even then
> it was complicated though, because of timing. Since none of us sit home and
> monitor the List all day, we don't necessarily know it when things start to
> heat up until they're pretty hot. Then, if we intervene, it takes time for
> the word to get through, because of the nature of email. Many people read
> it chronologically, so see the threads and post to them without knowing that
> the Admins. stepped in and so to the rest of the List, it looks like the
> admins are being ignored, even though it is often that they don't even
> realize the thread was closed. So, the only real option left was to
> temporarily set them to MOD until they realized that the thread had been
> closed and acknowledged that they had gotten the message. This was never
> about censorship, and is not now.
>
> Then there is the issue of taking sides. No matter what we do, there will
> always be some who will disagree and who will think we are favoring the
> other side. No matter how objective we tried to be, there were always
> people who thought we were siding with someone when we closed a thread.
> And, while Tom has a very high opinion of himself and feels himself to be
> objective, with all due respect, I disagree. During thise years when we
> worked together as admins, I often perceived that his feelings toward the
> people involved, or the friends of the people involved, played a role in how
> he felt about an issue, perhaps this was subconscious, but it was something
> that concerned me. Partly because of that problem, and partly because, as
> things on the Board and in the Club heated up, the tone on the List became
> correspondingly more heated and there were more angry and controversial
> posts, I suggested that the Admins. step aside, and stop trying to intervene
> in posts in all but the most egregious situations. By the way, I still have
> the documentation of all this saved. It was also becoming impossible for
> practical reasons, as it would have been a full-time job to try to stay
> ahead of these issues. So, we backed off on the Admin involvement in
> threads. There were many times when List members asked us to intervene, but
> rarely did we.
>
> Recently, Tom began bombarding the List with attacks on me, and on the List
> Administration. Other than to occasionally respond directly when he was
> critical of me, neither I nor the other admins. did anything, However, when
> he attacked the admins., I eventually closed that thread - and received
> numerous "thank yous". It is to be noted that when Tom was an admin, he
> felt strongly that we should not allow on-list attacks of the admins, but
> now, apparently when it was HIM who disagreed, it became ok, and he forgot
> to practice what he had so often preached. Since Tom had clearly decided
> that he was above the rules, he was set to MODPOST, solely for the purpose
> of stopping that thread, not in any way as censorship. So now, since he
> thinks he is above the rules, as Evan pointed out, Tom has decided to try to
> undermine the List, by getting other people to forward for him posts on the
> thread that was closed, and so encouraging even more people to violate our
> few rules. I hope that, if that continues, you will take it as what it is -
> a direct attack on the List, on the administration, and on any efforts to
> maintain order by Tom.
>
> The issue of Patty, Gary and Libby was then brought to the List, by their
> friends and supporters, not by the Admins. Despite the claims to the
> contrary, there was nothing partisan about that issue. They were
> intentionally and deliberately forwarding List posts. WE did not do it, did
> not cause them to do it - THEY DID IT. It is UNTRUE that Gary, Patty or
> Libby were sanctioned for inadvertenly replying to crossposted email. What
> occurred is that they specifically forwarded Showgsd-l posts to other
> parties. We did not rely on rumor or hearsay, we never do that. Since they
> deny it, and accuse us of ulterior motives, we will have the PROOF at the
> National for anyone who wants to see it. The List Administration had always
> chosen to take administrative issues private, explicitly so that we would
> not embarass List members who had violated List rules by trying the issue
> publicly, solely to try to be sensitive. We have no obligation to keep
> silent, while Patty, Gary, Libby and friends are swearing that we made it
> up, or that we jumped on them for accidental crossposts. Not so. We
> understand that List members make mistakes, and accidentally reply to
> crossposted threads. When that happens, we email them privately, point out
> the fact that they have done that and that it is causing problems. None of
> that is what happened here.
>
> Showgsd-l has been under direct attack by some members of the Board for a
> long time. They don't like the fact that it is an open forum, that they
> can't control it, and they blame the List for many things, beat up on it at
> Board meetings,yet use it when it suits them. They blame the List for the
> uproar over Hunte and all the resulting fallout, and if the List was the
> cause, imagine what would have happened if there was no List. So, knowing
> that, please think hard about whether you want to play into their hands. In
> the past, it has often suited those critics and their allies to post here,
> in fact, as has been pointed out, it was probably a strong force in getting
> then elected in the first place. Lew himself just posted here. He used to
> post here ALL the time, that changed 2 years ago. Many of those people are
> the same ones who consistently want secret sessions, and to keep the
> membership in the dark. Read between the lines. Several of them have
> advocated the GSDCA forming its "own" list, and if you think that would be a
> wide-open forum with the current climate and people on the Board, please
> think again.
>
> The topic of trashing the admins is a closed thread. However, since Tom
> chose again to disregard that closure, something he would have sanctioned
> others for when he was an admin., and had his post appear here, it is
> important that you know that things are not as he claims them to be, which
> is the reason for this response.
>
> What happens from here is up to you all. During the past several elections,
> there has been a very nasty tone on the List, which parallels the tone in
> the Club. Some have suggested that we continue to try to enforce the rules,
> some have suggested that we remove all the rules. It is imposssible to
> please everyone - We have always tried to be guided by what you all want,
> recognizing that we never get 100% of our membership feeling the same way,
> and recognizing that we can't do both. Setting people to MODPOST is a major
> nuisance for the Admins, for many reasons, and we do not want to interfere
> with anyone. So, we hate doing it, try hard not to do it, and when we do
> have to do it, we try hard to do it for the shortest possible time, and most
> of the time, people realize the thread is closed, the MODPOST is removed,
> and that is that. In the past couple of weeks, a few people here have
> accused the admins. of having an agenda in how we manage the List. I assume
> they are referring to me, and to the fact that I am crosswise with Lew,
> Gary, Carmen, Libby etc. I think most of you know me better than that. If
> the admins. really did have an agenda in how we manage the List as they
> accuse us, if we really were censoring people. much of what you have seen
> posted here would not have ever made it to you. In truth, it is THEY who
> have an agenda. Tom has made his agenda clear, in who he attacks and who he
> supports, as have the others who have posted angrily about the List Admins.
> As I said, the proof of the intentional forwards will be at the National, so
> that anyone who wants to can see that they really DID forward List posts to
> others who were not List members, and then, in addition to having done it,
> they DENIED that they did it, and instead, tried to point the finger at me /
> us for the fact that we became aware of their violations and so took action.
>
> The National is upon us. Evan will be posting his blog to keep you
> informed, Terry will be sending photos. Soon we will know the outcome of
> the election, hopefully we will all move on from this very troubled past two
> years.
>
> Margy
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: showgsd-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [
>
> mailto:showgsd-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of ELG440@xxxxxxx
> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 11:17 AM
> To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc: Gsdman2@xxxxxxx
> Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] TOM LANGLITZ SAYS
>
>
>
> Forwarded from Tom nGsdman2
> Most of you know that I have invested my heart into this list, along with
> many years of work.
>
>
>
> It is interesting that when I was set to be monitored, I took it as a wake
> up to see what I needed to do. Tom was behind my punishment. When Tom was
> set, he decided to undermine the List, announce he was quitting and violated
> List rules by asking someone else to post for him.
>
> We all live our lives out own way. I am sorry to see Tom go, he and I had
> many lively discussions. But, there is a saying about the heat and the
> kitchen. We all make up our own minds, and he has made up his.
>
> Evan ( http://www.asgardgsd.com/)
> Asgard German Shepherds
> http://www.asgardgsd.com/
> Where Type Movement and Temperament come together
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's new at
> http://www.aol.com
>
>
> ============================================================================
> POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original
> author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any
> kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of
> the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
>
> ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
> MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
> PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
> FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
> PROSECUTED.
>
> For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org
> ============================================================================
>
>
>
>
> ============================================================================
> POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original
> author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any
> kind
> are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
> Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
>
> ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
> MANNER
> OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF
> ALL
> PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A
> VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED.
>
> For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org
> ============================================================================
============================================================================
POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org
============================================================================
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