Heck make it a 1000 miles for a local show. You can do it in 2 days no problem. I would consider AZ a local show and it is 1369 miles from Oregon. It takes me about 18 driving hours with dogs. It is south and I don't run into that much snow. Terry Gsdman2@xxxxxxx wrote: In a message dated 2/12/2005 10:20:36 PM Central Standard Time, mgolant@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes: Debbie managed to come up with Daytona, knowing it was not ideal, but also knowing it was far better than nothing. So, it is not accurate to include Daytona as evidence of a failure of the "inclusive" approach, as that really is not what it was at all. ------------------------------------------------------------------ I am aware of the problems that led to the Daytona national, but I think the site still demonstrates the effect of putting a national specialty out of driving range for too many people. The "inclusive" approach does not take this most important factor into consideration, even though it easily could. All that would be needed is to decide that any national within driving distance, (I suggest 12 hours to be "driving distance" based on a poll I once took), is actually "including" everyone within that circle. Of course, it would be impossible to point out a spot that is 12 hours drive from any coast in every instance, but the idea is not necessarily to always move the national away from the coast. It is to include as many potential exhibitors as possible within a 12 hour drive radius of the site. Once again I suggest that moving the national to places which leave a drive that is difficult to impossible for people, is actually an exclusive approach, and that is proven by the fact that fewer people are able to attend those nationals. In addition, the smaller draws are damaging to the show's prestige, and that will ultimately do a great deal of harm to future entry. In response to other posts to this subject... None of us know the numbers for performance events, and until we do there is no reason to assume that the percentage of potential exhibitors who actually exhibit in those venues would be any different from the conformation draw. Also ... I'm glad people consider 500 miles "local." In fact, lets call 700 miles "local" and use that number of miles to expand the area for those folks who believe every area should have a national "local" at one time or another. Tom Langlitz ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================ Terry Cochran www.FairwayShepherds.com www.Rightdog.com RightDog Photography __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================