Mike,
I learned to race the Dragonfly in western Lake Erie against Jim and Deb (the
party would be half over by the time I finished), and crewed for them a few
years ago at the Corsair Nationals, watching YO! just walk away from everybody.
Thanks for your advice and for reading my rather long-winded reply. I think I
was avoiding making dinner. I agree that a set of synthetic back up shrouds
makes sense, especially in a 10-year old boat.
Where are you located? I have had my first Seawind for a little over a year
and she is lying in Oriental, NC.
Rick Gracely
________________________________
From: Michael Zotzky <mzotzky@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: 'Richard Gracely' <richardgracely@xxxxxxxxx>; scoaa-members@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Scoaa-members] Optimal angle between rudders
Rick,
Sounds like you understand the synthetics pretty
well. Yep, I remember Jim and Deb. We also both owned Corsair F-24's
before making the jump to the Corsair 28's. They were very competitive in
the 24 fleet, and I wish they had gone one-design into the 28R with others so
that we could have seen them racing at Key West. That was a competitive
group.
The Condor 40 used Amsteel for lifelines. I have
not looked at it in a while. That stuff is very easy to splice. We
make synthetic shackles out of it as well. More useful on the Corsair,
that we used to race as light as possible. Yes, and all of these
synthetics lines will kill a knife edge quickly.
Synthetic on the bowsprit stays would be good for the
reason you mentioned. And if I were to do long-term cruising, I would make
sure to have an emergency shroud made up of it as well. Light and easy to
stow.
Mike
________________________________
From: scoaa-members-bounces@xxxxxxxxx
[mailto:scoaa-members-bounces@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Richard ;
Gracely
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 7:00 PM
To: scoaa-members@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Scoaa-members] Optimal angle
between rudders
Mike,
Thanks for all of your comments. As I recall it was about two inches too
short before I did the 24 hours of at least 1500 lbs. Keith had left one
end of the splice unlocked by thread so that I could adjust it if needed, a
nice
idea. This was secured after I put it on.
I have a Dragonfly 25 with a homemade bowsprit (the fourth generation, with
a collection of failures) that is secured with synthetic lines. I plan to
replace my running backstays and ultimately all of the standing rigging.
You may know Jim Frederick and Deb Schafer, who have gone totally
synthetic on their Corsair 28, using the Precourt fittings. I believe
their shrouds had about a foot of lashing to allow for the continuous
creep.
I understand, perhaps incorrectly, that there is some inherent UV
resistance, especially in the newer models. It also comes covered and you
can buy the empty covers, as I am sure you know. I can't wait to replace
the rigging on the Dragonfly for the weight and the hassle of raising and
lowering; the wire is like a cable saw used to cut down tree limbs, and I have
a
number of gelcoat grooves to prove it....
I get a feeling that some are finding the elaborate dead eye fittings
unnecessary and just using rings. I had spliced some eyes in my bowsprit
system and my guru Keith says he never does, just used a ring as needed and
loops the line on itself (there is a term for this that I have forgotten).
But would we use this stuff for the main shrouds of a Seawind? I
would hesitate yet the danger of crevice corrosion is real. If you did,
seems like you would need lashings for creep and turnbuckles for final tension.
Hmm, what about fire? Maybe use the line as a back-up shroud since the
weight is negligible?
I have the "A" frame bowsprit and one use for this line would be for a
system of bowsprit stays that go through a block and to the cleats near the
beam, perhaps through a block system to lower the force. It would be nice
to easily raise the sprit for anchoring, docking, or to switch out the
screecher
with another head sail. I now have a quick attach continuous line furler
and would like to make a simple attachment to turn it into a symmetrical
spinnaker furler. Raising the sprit would avoid crawling out onto the sprit in
a
seaway to change headsails.
Thanks for the tip on the stanchion holes, which are about 1/4 in. I
am deciding between 3/16 line and sleeves or 1/4 line with some smoothing of
the
hole edges. This latter approach was recommended by some who praised the
toughness; the stuff is hard to cut with a knife. How have the Condor
lifelines faired?
Rick
________________________________
From: Michael Zotzky
<mzotzky@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: 'Richard Gracely' <richardgracely@xxxxxxxxx>;
scoaa-members@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Scoaa-members] Optimal angle
between rudders
Richard,
How much stretch/creep
did you work out of it with the tackle? I think Corsair is putting
synthetic shrouds on some of their boats now. We were considering it in
the Corsair 28R Class when I was President, as it was lighter than stainless
wire, and nicer to the gel coat when dragging across the boat when raising and
lowering the mast. Disadvantage though is that it is affected by UV, not
abrasion resistant, and there have been instances of splice letting go.
The other issue is creep – which seems to occur over the life. For us with
rotating masts – that are run much looser than a fixed mast - and adjustable
shroud length systems, this was not so much an issue as you could just snug it
up each time you went sailing. They were also using some very expensive
fittings to assure a large radius turn of the synthetic shroud, and multiple
lashing system to be able to take out the stretch. It was a fairly
elaborate system. And my last conversation with the dyneema maker – albeit
which was about five years ago at their booth at Key West Race Week – indicated
they recommended change out at 3 year intervals.
A local Condor 40 used
synthetic for the lifelines. It’s cool looking as well. But you have
to make sure that the stanchion holes are lined so as not to cut the synthetic
lifeline. I replaced the Seawind coated lifelines after four years as
several of them had been cut like this, and started showing rust
discoloration. If you use synthetic for lifelines, you will probably want
to sleeve it where it passes thru the stanchion.
Mike
________________________________
From:scoaa-members-bounces@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:scoaa-members-bounces@xxxxxxxxx] ;
On Behalf Of Richard
Gracely
Sent: Wednesday,
November 16, 2011 7:03 AM
To: scoaa-members@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Scoaa-members] Optimal angle
between rudders
Gary,
You
may not need to do this. It maybe that many boats have a few broken outer
strands of the cable at the jackscrew. I had 6 and decided to replace.
In a pinch you could place a sister cable on top of the current cable,
tightening with a turnbuckle or block and tackle when the rig is slack as
described below.
If you
have the time, the dyneema replacement makes sense to me. It is stronger
than the cable it replaced, tough, and extremely light. It is easy to
inspect and can be covered to keep the sun off. It has UV inhibitors and I
plan to leave it uncovered and just replace it every 6 years. You can make
your own, or contact an expert who will make one for you and send it to you.
His name is Keith Barrows and his email is kaveathome@xxxxxxx. His
fee is extremely reasonable, charging for the line, each splice and postage.
With all of the emails and some phone calls, he might have made minimum
wage in my case. You measure your current cable in place, he sends it to you
and
you do the switch at one time.
You
may not need to loosen anything but the nut on the jackscrew. You need to
get the cable slack enough to remove one of the two bolts holding it to the end
of the front beam. If you do have to loosen the rig, you just loosen the
two outer large shrouds, counting the turns. At the same time, attach a
line to each end of the forward beam, or to each of the pulpit cleats.
Attach the spinnaker or screecher halyard to this line in the center and
tighten the halyard and loosen the mainsheet. The longer the line between
the cleats the better, forming a more direct line upwards. My line was about 30
ft. I think I loosened the shrouds 6 turns, and noted slackness in the
cable that was not enough, and did another 6 turns that did the trick. The mast
probably moved forward an inch.
At
this point it would be ideal to have the new line ready to install. As I noted,
I turned the bolts around to put the nut on the front for future replacement
with an eyebolt for attaching an anchor or para anchor
bridle.
If you
order the line from Keith or elsewhere, get some extra. One application is
to use it between the boom and the mainsheet blocks, 2 to 3 feet long, with
different lengths so the blocks don't hit each other. 5 ft of line here
saves 40 ft of mainsheet line. The 7/16 line is so strong you could lift
two fully loaded Seawind1000's with one strand. 100 ft of it weighs less than 5
pounds.
Hope
this helps.
Rick
Gracely
________________________________
From:Gary Oelze
<gary@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: 'Richard Gracely' < richardgracely@xxxxxxxxx >;
scoaa-members@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 9:41 PM
Subject: [Scoaa-members] Removing
seagull striker cable
Thanks, this
is quite interesting.
Did you
loosen the inside stays (smaller cables) and the large shrouds (2 or 3 of
the)
Are the front
cleats in the center line of the boat? Or are these the
pulpits? I’m trying to picture what’s holding the mast while not
driving the mast down. Sorry, I’m not catching on so
well.
If you
are able I’d love a picture of the connections. I don’t understand: the
line fit over the bolts. The bolts would be in line with the
dyneema wouldn’t it. Not sure which bolts we’re speaking of. I guess
I need more time looking in the dark places, as if I haven’t spent enough time
upside down.
What you have
done is great and it could really be a life saver to get this since a lot of us
are far from fixes.
Gary
From:scoaa-members-bounces@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:scoaa-members-bounces@xxxxxxxxx] ;
On Behalf Of Richard
Gracely
Sent: Tuesday, November
15, 2011 4:36 PM
To: scoaa-members@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Scoaa-members] Optimal angle
between rudders
Gary,
I
removed the old cable intact. In my case I had to loosen the shrouds and
crank on the spinnaker halyard, attached to a bridle between the front cleats,
to get enough slack to get the cable out of the groove in the striker.
Measured the needed distance on the old cable around 1/2 inch bolts.
I was referred to someone who is very familiar with the properties of
dyneema and he made a permanent splice in one end of 7/16 line and one that
could be adjusted if needed on the other end. The line came short on
purpose and I applied an initial force between pilings on a dock using a
come-a-long (a lowly 1500 lb one that I basically destroyed) over night.
The line does not actually stretch but realigns or "creeps." The
line fit over the bolts (turned them around for future eye nuts) and into the
grove of the striker and a few turns of the nut on the jack shaft and done!
I placed the splices on the smooth shaft of the bolt and plan to wrap a
small line around the exposed threads to keep the splice off of the threaded
part of the bolt.
I have
asked the person who made it if he is interested in making more and await his
reply. I have done about 20 of these splices myself and they are very
easy, essentially a chinese finger puzzle in which the line is passed down its
hollow center. Details are in tapering the end and in locking the splice
so that it will not shake out when not loaded. There are at least three
ways to do this and the instructions provided by New England Ropes have been
recommended by several pros.
I am
in the process of replacing all of the Seawind's lifelines with 1/4 inch
dyneema, can't decide between light gray or
white.
Rick
Gracely
________________________________
From:Gary Oelze <gary@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: 'Richard Gracely' <richardgracely@xxxxxxxxx>; scoaa-members@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 8:09
PM
Subject: Re: [Scoaa-members]
Optimal angle between rudders
Rick,
This is very
interesting and without wanting you to go thru too much effort I would like to
know how you did this conversion.
Gary
From:scoaa-members-bounces@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:scoaa-members-bounces@xxxxxxxxx] ;
On Behalf Of Richard
Gracely
Sent: Thursday,
November 10, 2011 8:47 AM
To: scoaa-members@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Scoaa-members] Optimal angle
between rudders
I
recently found 6 of the cable strands for the seagull striker were broken and
hidden from view by the cover that is there to keep the cable jumping out of
the
groove. Replaced this heavy cable and fittings with a length of 7/16 inch
dyneema SK75, with a breaking strength of 24,000 pounds that weighs only 11
ounces. Used simple splices at each end over the smooth part of the bolts.
In addition to a simple fix that is easy to inspect, this saves some weight on
the bow. If anyone is interested, I can provide more details about getting
the old cable off, and the new one on, and allowance for dyneema
creep.
Guy, I
have asked about the photos of the gas can storage under the targa
seats.
Rick
Gracely
Seawind1069
________________________________
From:Carol Dean <guydean@xxxxxxxxx>
To: Richard Gracely <richardgracely@xxxxxxxxx>; scoaa-members@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, November 7, 2011 6:16
PM
Subject: Re: [Scoaa-members]
broken strands in seagull striker cable, bow weight, photos
Would you be kind
enough to forward them to us as well. We are currently in Mexico and just
added two hundred feet of anchor chain instead of one hundred feet so we would
love to get some weight off the bow.
Guy
Dean
Stray
Cat
----- Original Message -----
From:Richard Gracelywe bought her a couple of months ago, if you can call a 1995 new!
To:scoaa-members@xxxxxxxxx
Sent:Monday, October 31, 2011 2:46 PM
Subject:Re: [Scoaa-members] Optimal angle between rudders
Thanks to all for the advice on rudder adjustments. All systems are not
tight, possibly too tight, and the rudders are pointing in the same
direction. My reluctance to remove the cables from the quadrant wheel and
adjust the cable length on the eye bolt was totally unfounded and stupid in
hind sight. It was pretty easy to remove the necessary eyebolt, and then
bring the cable into a more comfortable position to loosen the clamps and
move the thimble. Will post a report once the boat goes back into the water.
AJ, Look forrward to seeing you down there or in New Bern . Could you send a
photo sometime of the "shelf" under the Targa Seats for storage of gas cans?
Seems like an ideal location whether the propane bottles are moved or not.
Rick Gracely
s/v She'll be Right
________________________________
From:andrew jackson <catedelmiami@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "richardgracely@xxxxxxxxx" <richardgracely@xxxxxxxxx>;
"scoaa-members@xxxxxxxxx" <scoaa-members@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Scoaa-members] Optimal angle between rudders
We haven't seen the new boat since
Good luck withthe tightening of the rudders.
AJ26, 2011, at 6:18 PM, richardgracely@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
Sent from my iPad
On Oct
my slack was not a factor because my rudders were trying to steer the
AJ,
How is the new boat?
Perhaps
Sender: scoaa-members-bounces@xxxxxxxxx
Rick
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: andrew jackson <catedelmiami@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 17:18:59
Reply-To: scoaa-members@xxxxxxxxxTo: Richard Gracely<richardgracely@xxxxxxxxx>;
scoaa-members@xxxxxxxxx<scoaa-members@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Scoaa-members] Optimal angle between rudders
Rick,
Hi
the cables would cause the boat to wander. I thought our autopilot
With our old Seawind even the slightest bit of play in
iPad
Sent from my
the optimal angle is between the two rudders? Zero is a logical answer
On Oct 26, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Richard Gracely <richardgracely@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Does anyone know what
great seeing Steve, Tanya and Kurt at the Annapolis boat show, although the
It was
Right"
Rick Gracely
Seawind 1000 #69 "She'll be
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