[sac-board] Re: FW: BLM Situation - Hovatter Rd (oops!...)
- From: "AJ Crayon" <acrayon@xxxxxxx>
- To: <sac-board@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 10:03:27 -0700
Though not a member of the board I will attend as this has implications with
the AAMM.
AJ Crayon
Phoenix, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Harshaw" <rharshaw2@xxxxxxx>
To: <sac-board@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:57 AM
Subject: [sac-board] FW: BLM Situation - Hovatter Rd (oops!...)
It gets juicier, folks.
Iâ?Td like to call a board meeting prior to our next General Meeting, July
23, 6:30 pm, in the room adjacent to our meeting room.
Officers, please RSVP so Iâ?Tll know you got the word and plan on being
there.
Richard Harshaw
Cave Creek, Arizona
Brilliant Sky Observatory
From: David M. Douglass [mailto:david@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:51 AM
To: 'Richard Harshaw'
Subject: BLM Situation - Hovatter Rd (oops!...)
I fear that I may have opened a can of wormsâ?¦
Take a look at the below message (really my questions to BLM, and their
answers).
They are wanting both groups to permit for the use of the land.
The problem is NOT the permitâ?¦. We can do that and together no less.
There is a fee (of course $95â?¦ ) but that too can be handled.
There are insurance requirements (that are slightly dumbâ?¦..).
And when someone is thereâ?¦. They need to have the permit, evidence of
insurance, and ��
C*A* !!!!
I am up in Snowflake, using the motorhome internet. I do have cell coverage.
Are you where I can call you for a fewâ?¦
David M. Douglass
david@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Home (480) 839-2629
Cell (602) 908-9092
From: Joseph_Raffaele@xxxxxxx [mailto:Joseph_Raffaele@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 10:20 AM
To: David M. Douglass
Subject: Re: Groups - Need a Clarification (Hovatter Rd)
"David M. Douglass" <david@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
07/13/2010 01:45 PM
To
<Joseph_Raffaele@xxxxxxx>
cc
Subject
Groups - Need a Clarification (Hovatter Rd)
Hello,
I may have opened a can of worms. Sorry to be pest, but I am going to have
to answer some questions to others here.
Thats quite alright, that is what we are here for, to help you through the
process.
First, we (EVAC) have no problem with the permit concept for the larger
gathering (Nov) as previously outlined.
We shall start work on that.
I do understand your concern with the permitting process, however it is
actually quite simple, and the permit is good for a whole year so it will
cover all your events including the larger ones for the next year.
The issue is the smaller (much smaller) gatherings during dark moon periods.
Based on BLM Manual H-2930-1 Recreation Permit Administration, under chapter
1 - Special Recreation Permits, Section E - Organized Group Activity and
Event Use, states as follows: "Organized group or event permits are
intended for group outdoor recreation activities or events which are neither
commercial nor competative. A group is defined as more than one person
participating in a recreation activity or event".
EVAC used to use BLM lands down by Vekol Rd, south of I-8 (east of Gila
Bend). We had NEVER had a need (at least not a â?oquestioned needâ??) for a
permit.
The permit was required but either the BLM field office Outdoor Rec. Planner
probably was not aware of your organized group activities on public land.
I believe SAC is operating under the same thought process at Hovatter Rd.
The questions here relate to the Hovatter Rd location, OR ANY OTHER BLM
LOCATION IN OPEN BLM LANDS.
The Yuma Field Office likes to do our permitting the proper legal way,
therefore we will require you and SAC to get a recreation permit which will
cover
all of your activities for one year from the date of signature. These rules
are national and are standardized to apply to all BLM managed public lands.
They are put in place to help prevent degradation of public land for all the
public, and future generations, and so we can monitor what types of
activities are being conducted on the public land.
These smaller â?ogatheringsâ?? are NOT organizedâ?¦
As stated above your "gathering" are considered an organized group activity
under BLM regulations.
There are NO meetings, and NO formal agenda. There are no â?ofeesâ?? or
monetary exchanges.
It is simply individuals (yesâ?¦ SOME of them may belong to a common CLUB or
CLUBS, but others may not).
That are simply showing up, and setting up telescopes to observe through the
evening.
Some will return home, without sleeping. Others will sleep at the site.
Some will establish camps for multi-day occupancy.
The site(s) are simply known as good â?odark skyâ?? locations, and the time
of the month is goodâ?¦. So people show up to observe.
Again, there is NO STRUCTURE. Just individuals, showing up, to set up and
observe the night sky.
The concept was that individuals could camp or otherwise use the BLM land by
the definition of Dispersed Camping.
Really, many do not â?oCampâ?? at all.
Some will return home sometime after midnight. Others get some sleep for a
few hours in the early AM, and then return home.
But yesâ?¦.. some do set up a camp.
Camping is no problem and is allowed for up to 14 days.
So�� by these definitions and illustrations, are permits REQUIRED?
Under the those definition and illustrations, an annual Special Recreation
Permit is required, and will cover all your activities for the one year. As
we discussed on the phone it is a fairly quick process to complete, provided
you provide the Application, $95.00, and add the BLM-Yuma Field Office onto
your liability insurance as a certificate holder and have the insurance
company fax or mail us a copy.
Really, I am sorry if it seems I am being a pest. I donâ?Tt want to be.
Thank you again for your patience and assistance.
David M. Douglass
david@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Home (480) 839-2629
Cell (602) 908-9092
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