Sounds like an interesting variant Patric but the math is confusing me... t= wo cemented elements plus three individual elements is 7 elements in 5 grou= ps total... no? Eric Goldstein -----Original Message----- From: J Patric Dahl=EF=BF=BDn <jenspatricdahlen@xxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Mar 28, 2005 3:53 PM To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [rollei_list] Xenon is a Xenar! I have a pre-war Kodak Retina IIa (type 150) with the Schneider Xenon=20 2,8/50. I thought the lens looked much different from the post-war Xenon on my IIc.= =20 The rear lens group is made of two cemented elements, and there are three= =20 air spaced elements in front of the aperture. So this pre-war Xenon is actually the FIVE ELEMENT XENAR we have talked=20 about on the RUG before. It's sometimes called "Super-Xenar" in Schneider= =20 litterature. In "a lens collectors Vade mecum" they say: "This looks the same lens as th= e=20 S-Xenar for Exakta from the reflections and external curves. Thus it is a= =20 case where a triplet was used for a Xenon design [...] Perhaps Kodak merely= =20 liked the prestige of having Xenon on their cameras". (Not the same as the S-Xenar on Rollei 35 cameras. That's a four element=20 lens) /Patric