[roc-chat] Re: Using Aluminum Hardware: Lighter but strong enough?
- From: Richard Dierking <richard.dierking@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 10:39:13 -0700
Before I placed my order with McMaster, I did take a look at the U-Bolts
and Threaded Aluminum. The alloy for the U-Bolts was not specific, and I
want a strong alloy like 7075 (aircraft alum). Also, the thread lengths
were short for what I need (nuts on both sides of a 1/4" thick board). So,
I would like to try making them myself using rod stock. However, I now
know (thanks to Erik) that I will have to be very careful when I form the
U-bolts to retain their temper.
For the threaded aluminum, I want to control the length of the rods and
only make the threads long enough to secure the nuts at both ends of the
bay.
Anyway, this aluminum fabrication project is interesting to me and I'm
learning a lot.
Thank you for the link.
Richard
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Ed Holyoke <bicyclop@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> **
> Richard,
>
> Take a look at McMaster. They have both aluminum threaded rods and
> aluminum U-bolts. http://www.mcmaster.com/#u-bolts/=ixl16r
>
> Pax,
>
> Ed Holyoke
>
> On 8/20/2012 9:05 AM, Richard Dierking wrote:
>
> Thank you - An excellent tip about the chamfer. It was very difficult to
> start the thread on the first rods. I'm using a cutting oil that says it's
> for aluminum.
>
> Richard
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 8:24 AM, Jim - TFJ <jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Try setting them on a screw.
>> That should put them pretty close to where you want them in the need.
>>
>> ah, 3/16 right?
>> That's the nominal OD for 10-24.
>>
>> Also, be sure to chamfer the end of the rod before trying to thread.
>> That helps a lot!
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* roc-chat-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>> roc-chat-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Richard Dierking
>> *Sent:* Sunday, August 19, 2012 11:22 PM
>> *To:* roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> *Subject:* [roc-chat] Re: Using Aluminum Hardware: Lighter but strong
>> enough?
>>
>> Sorry, yes, adjustable *die*. Always get those mixed up. It's a
>> 13/16" diameter rod die with three adjustment screws for the diameter.
>> Really looking forward to receiving it tomorrow and doing some testing.
>>
>> Again, sorry for referring to the wrong tool.
>>
>> Richard
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 9:58 PM, jim <jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Adjustable tap? or do you mean an adjustable threading die (taps make
>>> internal threads, dies make external ones.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Unless there’s something I haven’t understood yet, I haven’t bought a
>>> threading die yet that didn’t need to be opened up wider to
>>>
>>> make the correct pitch diameter on a stud.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim G
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:* roc-chat-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>>> roc-chat-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Kurt Gugisberg
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 18, 2012 3:07 PM
>>> *To:* roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> *Subject:* [roc-chat] Re: Using Aluminum Hardware: Lighter but strong
>>> enough?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hey Richard. Great work on the testing. It confirms my thoughts on fin
>>> attachment. I am interested in seeing how nylon nuts hold up under high
>>> shock loads. After pulling steel eye bolts straight and seeing fender
>>> washers pulled through 1/2 plywood bulkheads, I have my doubts about
>>> aluminum and nylon holding up.
>>>
>>> Also, what is an *adjustable* 10/24 tap?
>>>
>>> Kurt
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Richard Dierking
>>> Sent: Aug 18, 2012 10:20 AM
>>> To: roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [roc-chat] Using Aluminum Hardware: Lighter but strong enough?
>>>
>>> Since I've had the opportunity to go through some of my old projects
>>> lately (cleaning out the garage), I've been taking some rocket airframes
>>> apart including some destructive testing. It's interesting to see what
>>> holds and where weakness occurs. For example, for through the wall fins,
>>> the surface fillet doesn't seem to do much. The most important thing is
>>> that the fin slot is tight. So the lesson here is to create tight slots
>>> and don't expect for epoxy to fill the gap and hold strong.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For attaching the fin, creating many small slots (1/8" deep) in the root
>>> edge for attachment to the motor mount works well and doesn't require much
>>> epoxy. Bryan showed me how to do this. If the surface is roughed-up
>>> with 80 grit sand paper a fillet doesn't seem to be required. The failure
>>> I'm seeing is the motor mount tube material. The surface of paper tubes
>>> peels and phenolic fractures and peels. And, as expected, fiberglassing
>>> the root to the motor mount tube works best, and it doesn't require much
>>> resin. In fact, the lay-up can be pretty dry and it seems to do fine. The
>>> extra amount of resin I commonly use for a good finish is not necessary. I
>>> guess drilling small holes in the motor mount tube where the fins are
>>> attached might help hold the epoxy bond between the fin and the tube. I
>>> haven't tried this yet.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Another thing I've been experimenting with is the altimeter bay. This
>>> is the important part of this message, and sorry it took so long to get
>>> around to it.* Recently, I've done a few deployment tests using 3/16"
>>> aluminum rods that are tapped to 10-24 tread and nylon hardware (nuts
>>> and wing nuts) to hold the bay together. Also, I reduced the size of the U
>>> bolts significantly. I replaced the 1/4"-20 U bolts (1" wide) with U bolts
>>> from Home Depot that are in packs for cable clamps (5/8" wide). Even
>>> though the cable clamps say they are 1/4" size, the nuts are actually 6 mm
>>> metric. Just to give an idea of the weight savings; Replacing the steel
>>> hardware and reducing the size of the U-bolts on a 4" diameter altimeter
>>> bay reduced the weight from 495 grams to 325 grams (34% less). Also,
>>> instead of using metal fender washers, I've been fiberglassing both sides
>>> of the bulkheads, and switched from 1/4" thick plywood to 1/8" thick. So,
>>> no more fender washers. I'm wondering if I could make aluminum U-bolts
>>> without causing too much stress on the aluminum rod during the bend?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The deployment tests have gone so well, that I just ordered some 3/16"
>>> high-strength aluminum (alloy 7075) rod, aluminum nuts, and other
>>> light-weight hardware from McMaster-Carr. I also ordered an adjustable
>>> 10-24 tap. I would appreciate any advice on threading this new aluminum
>>> rod.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So, do you think this will hold? Are there problems with using aluminum
>>> hardware I need to consider.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you're interested in using light-weight materials and techniques for
>>> your project, I would like to discuss at the September launch. I'm
>>> planning on launching a two-stage rocket with the 'new' hardware.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Richard
>>> -- ROC-Chat mailing list roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/roc-chat
>>
>>
>>
>
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