Thanks for all the info on the seat. It really cleared things up for me. Now the hunt for a cheap seats starts. :) I basically use Google Sketchup to quickly model ideas for parts of the things i build. I can group everything into groups and move those around, stretch and rotate etc to see if my ideas fit reality. I found it pretty easy to learn, the youtube tutorials are excellent. When i finish a design and i need to build or order parts, i turn to AutoCAD. Draw the designs up again by hand, nice last step to check look it all over again. And companies basically always want AutoCAD. Rob