Re: [program-l] Re: Developing cross-platform, accessible apps

  • From: "Humberto Rodriguez" <sub@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 11:11:50 -0400

Hello Jamal and Juan:

It is curious, the same thing happened to me.  I saw the domain as a 
blind-related domain and recognized Juan's area code 619 as San Diego's 
because I have a son who has lived there for many years, so went to the 
domain and was amazed when I found it for sale.

I'd be interested in finding out more about what you do too, Juan.

Regards,

Humberto


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "Juan Hernandez" <blindmagik@xxxxxxxxx>; "'Ken Perry'" 
<whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: [program-l] Re: Developing cross-platform, accessible apps


| Hi Juan,
| I was curious about your web site mentioned in your signature block.  It
| seems to be a domain-for-sale type of page though.  Is there another web
| address we can check out related to your interests?
|
| Jamal
|
|
| On 6/14/2010 9:46 AM, Juan Hernandez wrote:
| > I'd love to get my hands on the rest of that code. The closed source 
stuff.  I know he's had some health problems and so it would be a shame to 
let that interface become stagnate for continuous work on the system.
| >
| >
| > Juan Hernandez
| >
| > Cell: 619-261-2568
| >
| > E-Mail: juanhernandez98@xxxxxxxxx
| >
| > follow me on twitter: http://www.twitter.com/blindwiz
| >
| > my website: http://www.blindwiz.info
| >
| >
| > -----Original Message-----
| > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jamal Mazrui
| > Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 7:35 AM
| > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
| > Cc: Ken Perry
| > Subject: Re: [program-l] Re: Developing cross-platform, accessible apps
| >
| > At one point, IBM was developing a Java screen reader, which I think
| > worked as a self-voicing plug-in.  IBM was in a good position to do it
| > right.  Does anyone know why that project was dropped?
| >
| > I think Jay has developed enough Java screen reading code that it could
| > be a strong basis of a cross-platform Java screen reader.  I wish other
| > Java experts could work with him to get that released.  I do not know
| > what his current views are on doing something like that.
| >
| > Jamal
| >
| > On 6/12/2010 7:45 PM, Ken Perry wrote:
| >> It is sad but the truth is the only way we are going to truly get 
universal access to Java is if someone sits down and writes a java screen 
reader / tool kit that makes the entire system talk.  This would be cross 
platform and injected into the Jvm like the access bridge.  Otherwise we end 
up writing scripts for jaws, Plug ins for window - eyes, other methods for 
other screen readers and we are all working on multiple methods.  If we all 
worked on one method it would be done in a year to the point of at least 
something like voice over.
| >>
| >> ken
| >>
| >> -----Original Message-----
| >> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jamal Mazrui
| >> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 2:45 PM
| >> To: program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
| >> Cc: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Roopakshi Pathania
| >> Subject: Re: [program-l] Re: Developing cross-platform, accessible apps
| >>
| >> Correction -- Window-Eyes does not have native support for the Java
| >> access API, but considerable support has been developed by a 
third-party
| >> script writer.  A significant problem, however, is that there is little
| >> tech support for that script at this time.
| >>
| >> Jamal
| >>
| >> On 6/12/2010 2:24 PM, Jamal Mazrui wrote:
| >>> Hi Roopakshi,
| >>> I am aware of the Java access API, but unfortunately, I do not think
| >>> there is sufficient screen reader support for it on Windows. This is
| >>> more the fault of the screen reader companies than Sun, since the API 
is
| >>> strong on the server side.
| >>>
| >>> Window-Eyes, for example, does not support that API at all. JAWS works
| >>> partially. I hear that NVDA works well. I do not know about System
| >>> Access or Hal. With the SWT approach, on the other hand, apps can be
| >>> fully accessible because native widgets are used, including
| >>> MSAA-integrated controls on Windows.
| >>>
| >>> Thanks for the info about Axtk, which I had not heard about. At first, 
I
| >>> thought the name was associated with the cross-platform GUI library
| >>> called TK, which has poor accessibility, but I see that it is actually
| >>> wx-related, as you say.
| >>>
| >>> Jamal
| >>>
| >>> On 6/12/2010 11:53 AM, Roopakshi Pathania wrote:
| >>>    >
| >>>    >   Hi Jamal,
| >>>    >
| >>> Thanks for the info about Axtk -- I had not heard of it. The name made
| >>> me first think it was related to the cross-platform GUI library called
| >>> TK, which has poor accessibility, but I see that it is based on
| >>> wxWdigets, as you say.
| >>>
| >>> Jamal
| >>>
| >>>
| >>>
| >>> On 6/12/2010 11:53 AM, Roopakshi Pathania wrote:
| >>>>
| >>>> Hi Jamal,
| >>>>
| >>>>
| >>>> You left out Java Accessibility API that provides access to Swing
| >>>> based applications on all platforms (not completely sure about Mac)
| >>>> through Java Access Bridge.
| >>>> In this regard, the guidelines laid down by IBM on developing a
| >>>> completely accessible Java application are quite useful.
| >>>> http://www-03.ibm.com/able/guidelines/software/accesssoftware.html
| >>>>
| >>>> I like to point the developers of inaccessible applications to this 
page.
| >>>>
| >>>> One more toolkit might be of interest: AxTk.
| >>>> http://code.google.com/p/axtk/
| >>>>
| >>>> It is built on wxWidgets and is especially geared towards screen
| >>>> reader users. It is also suppose to have text to speech wrapper class
| >>>> supporting a number of speech engines.
| >>>>
| >>>> I’m building my own tools for financial and data analysis, so have
| >>>> looked at cross-platform accessible libraries.
| >>>>
| >>>> Regards
| >>>> Roopakshi
| >>>>
| >>>> --- On Sat, 6/12/10, Jamal Mazrui<empower@xxxxxxxxx>   wrote:
| >>>>
| >>>>> From: Jamal Mazrui<empower@xxxxxxxxx>
| >>>>> Subject: Developing cross-platform, accessible apps
| >>>>> To: "programmingblind"<programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
| >>>>> program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
| >>>>> Date: Saturday, June 12, 2010, 8:27 PM
| >>>>> This is to share some points I have
| >>>>> learned about developing cross-platform, GUI-accessible,
| >>>>> desktop apps. Currently, the key is using programming
| >>>>> libraries that wrap native widgets of the platform. These
| >>>>> native widgets generally implement the main accessibility
| >>>>> API of the platform, much more so than custom widgets.
| >>>>>
| >>>>> On Windows, native widgets are most likely to implement
| >>>>> Microsoft Active Accessibility, or increasingly, User
| >>>>> Interface Automation as it replaces MSAA. On Linux,
| >>>>> the GTK+ widgets that are native to the Gnome desktop
| >>>>> implement the Assistive Technology Service Provider
| >>>>> Interface. On the Mac, Cocoa-based widgets implement the Mac
| >>>>> Accessibility Protocol.
| >>>>>
| >>>>> Thus, a cross-platform library is most likely to create
| >>>>> accessible GUIs if it wraps native widgets of each platform,
| >>>>> rather than defining its own widgets. A disadvantage
| >>>>> of this approach is that the developer needs to be conscious
| >>>>> of small differences in the behavior of widgets across
| >>>>> platforms, even though wrapping code of the library tries to
| >>>>> minimize such differences. Besides accessibility, an
| >>>>> advantage of this approach is that widgets have the look and
| >>>>> feel that sighted users are accustomed to experiencing on
| >>>>> each platform.
| >>>>>
| >>>>> Sometimes, a GUI library is closely associated with a
| >>>>> programming language that has especially strong support for
| >>>>> that library in wrapper functions and design tools. A
| >>>>> few language and library combinations that seem to work
| >>>>> particularly well for cross-platform, accessible development
| >>>>> are as follows:
| >>>>>
| >>>>> * Java and the Standard Widget Toolkit
| >>>>> http://www.eclipse.org/swt/
| >>>>>
| >>>>> * Python and wxWidgets
| >>>>> http://wxPython.org
| >>>>>
| >>>>> * C# and the System.Windows.Forms classes of the Mono
| >>>>> Framework
| >>>>> http://mono-project.org
| >>>>>
| >>>>> Note that, in this case, the Microsoft .NET Framework
| >>>>> should be used as the runtime environment on Windows in
| >>>>> order to have native widget support.
| >>>>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/netframework/default.aspx
| >>>>>
| >>>>> If others have further info or ideas on this topic, please
| >>>>> share.
| >>>>>
| >>>>> Jamal
| >>>>>
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