The CD now included in the book does not include the text. This is according to folks at my work who are reading it. Susie Stanzel From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Michael Malver Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 9:40 AM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: long thread on Java certification from the Java list The Kathy Sierra; Bert Bates books are good. I used one for a class, and it came with an accessible adobe version of the book on the cd enclosed in the front cover. I passed this cert for java 1.4, then never upgraded. From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Stanzel, Susan - Kansas City, MO Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 9:30 AM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: long thread on Java certification from the Java list I guess I forgot to do control V. Here it is. SusieThat is the book I am talking about. Susie Stanzel From: program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:17 AM To: program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [program-java] Re: Java certification If you are talking about the following book, I have been reading it on Safari. SCJP Sun(r) Certified Programmer for Java(tm) 6 Study Guide Exam (310-065) By: Kathy Sierra; Bert Bates Publisher: McGraw-Hill Osborne Media Publication Date: 24-JUN-2008 I point this out because I don't recall if you mentioned having Safari access or being willing to read online or not. I have free access with my local library card. HTH, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-08-25, at 11:06 AM, Stanzel, Susan - Kansas City, MO wrote: I am going to join a study group. The book used is "Sun Cirtified Programmer for Java 6 Study Guide" SCJP by Kathy Sierra and Bert Bates Does anyone know of this book? I think it weighs three pounds. I would hate to scan it in (grin). Susie -----Original Message----- From: program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> [mailto:program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Fidler Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 10:00 AM To: program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [program-java] Re: Java certification Jim, Agreed! To help clarify, in this thread I was initially assuming first that the developer has some real world experience since Susie fits this category from what I have been able to deduce based on her posts. Now that the thread has taken on a larger scope: In my experieince, the reputable certifications seem to provide an edge in many cases. In those cases where a company is looking for more senior candidates who have some real world experience in a production environment, it seems that the reputable credentials provide some advantage in that it 'ensures' some understood baseline mastery of the subject. Also, I have noticed that 'fresh' recruits tend to have better success if they come from a prestigious school (e.g. here in Western PA Carnegie Mellon credentials are sacred) or if they do not have this, a reputable certification does provide an edge over the competition in many cases for the same reason as above. It may take a couple of weeks to understand the development life cycle activities in the real world (e.g. source code version control, test driven development, functional requirement walkthroughs,technical design, technical design walkthroughs, development environment vs. integration/staging environment vs. QA environments, related defect and enhancement request during the development life cycle in these various environments, etc. etc.), and it takes maybe a few months before these processes become reflexive and familiar.But, if the developer is lacking certain areas of expertise in the constructs and theory of the language itself, that learning curve can be a matter of months or maybe even years or even never! It just helps to know with some degree of certainty that the candidate has a good grasp on the language-level concerns so their time will be spent learning real world development processes while doing the familiar problem solving in their daily programming tasks. Along other lines, I guess if nothing else, the certification indicates ambition or assertiveness or just a deep interest in the subject matter, etc. It may also indicate that the candidate takes the career practicing the subject matter seriously, as well. More generally, I guess it is reflective of the candidate's character: it just indicates that the candidate is cognizant of the importance of verifying a certain baseline of knowledge in the context of understanding that it is a competitive field, indicating that they take the whole matter seriously. Thinking back to a former post, I suppose the lister that said, 'It can't hurt.' summed it up very well without all of my extra words! Kind regards, Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Corbett, James" <James.Corbett@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:James.Corbett@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> To: <program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 9:49 AM Subject: [program-java] Re: Java certification Jeff: Interesting perspective. I agree that it's hard to fake certifications that are registered with reparable organisations but a certification alone does not make a programmer. I've seen those who are certified up the ying yang but couldn't produce in a prod environment. Jim -----Original Message----- From: program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> [mailto:program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Fidler Sent: August 23, 2010 16:56 To: program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [program-java] Re: Java certification Hi, Jim. It used to be this way at the company I am presently employed, but they have pretty much phased out internal traning, and have found that without the credibility of a Java certification for the senior developers, much of the more senior work was being handled by the much more expensive contractors that were hired to fill in the gaps. (Much of the time, these contractors did not carry the required skills themselves, and were being paid 25-40% more than the full timers!) This is all very recent -- a transition over the past 3 or 4 years, really. Much of it is related to the need for the large corporation to get the most bang out of its employee buck, if we are to believe the powers that be. I think it also provides a baseline in terms of skillset so they are able to offload the cost of technical folks taking time away from project work to do interviews and evaluate job candidates for senior positions more generally. After all, one can fake up a resume and professional references with some degree of confidence as the looming overhead cost in time (and therefore money) can be substantial if there is some doubt in the prospective employer's mind, but one cannot fake up the Sun certification as easily: it is either on record with Sun or it is not. - Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Corbett, James" <James.Corbett@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:James.Corbett@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> To: <program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 4:33 PM Subject: [program-java] Re: Java certification Hi: It seems as though I live in a parallel universe as it relates to the job environment. Where I work, the emphasis is on experience and the core skill sets that we attain during the years of service. Its expected that a given level you must meet the core levels but as to the specifics of whether you are a JCL / HTML / COBOL / Java developer those unique skill sets are part of the day to day job and are offered to us through our education plan. Jim -----Original Message----- From: program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> [mailto:program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Fidler Sent: August 23, 2010 16:27 To: program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [program-java] Re: Java certification Hello, Susie. In the corporation at which I am presently employed, it is required for senior Java developers and junior architects to have their SCJP certification. (I am currently studying for the SCJP myself, and also am quite curious to learn what it may entail for a blind applicant as my promotion to senior developer technical lead is contingent upon it!) Also, those with these certifications generally receive about a + $10K salary offer when compared against those having equal work experience but without the official Sun certifications in the local market. The same holds true for .NET developers in the western Pennsylvania area, too. Those with the official Microsoft certifications are being offered significantly higher salaries when compared to those with equivalent experience but no certification in the majority of cases. I think the important thing to discover is which certifications are meaningful and which are not. I think those offered by Sun, Oracle, and Microsoft, to name a few of the big ones, carry some substantial weight. I'll certainly share what I learn regarding the SCJP certification process. Kind regards, Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Corbett, James" <James.Corbett@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:James.Corbett@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> To: <program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 4:11 PM Subject: [program-java] Re: Java certification Ok, still not worth anything. Try looking at the SUN site for these certification courses.... All they really are is a piece of paper that can be hung on the wall. If you must have the wall furniture to get ahead we can actually look at a particular course together. I have certification in Basic Java, Intermediate Java, Struts 1.3 and J2E 3.0. J. -----Original Message----- From: program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> [mailto:program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Stanzel, Susan - Kansas City, MO Sent: August 23, 2010 15:47 To: program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [program-java] Re: Java certification I asked a friend what he has and he has a "Sun Certified Java Programmer" certification. Susie From: program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> [mailto:program-java-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Stanzel, Susan - Kansas City, MO Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 2:42 PM To: program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:program-java@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [program-java] Java certification We seem to have two threads going. To get back to my question. I am looking into certification. I will be working in the persistence area with validation and using Struts. Susie Stanzel From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, James Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 9:06 AM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: long thread on Java certification from the Java list Hi Suzie, This only has your message, no other content. Thanks. Jim Jim Homme, Usability Services, Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme Internal recipients, Read my accessibility blog<http://mysites.highmark.com/personal/lidikki/Blog/default.aspx>. Discuss accessibility here<http://collaborate.highmark.com/COP/technical/accessibility/default.aspx>. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice<http://collaborate.highmark.com/COP/technical/accessibility/Accessibility%20Wiki/Forms/AllPages.aspx> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Stanzel, Susan - Kansas City, MO Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 9:31 AM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: long thread on Java certification from the Java list Hi Listers, All of you who are learning Java need to subscribe to the program-java list. It is sometimes quiet, but lately it has been buzzing about certification, Struts, and Eclipse. Here is a long thread, of course backwards, on certification. Susie Stanzel ________________________________ This e-mail and any attachments to it are confidential and are intended solely for use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and then delete it. 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