Thanks Dante. I know you're trying and I'm sorry if my email came across
as too harsh.
Accessibility challenges can just get really frustrating sometimes, and
I would love to be using the latest and greatest VS.
I'm just not willing to give up intellisense for it. And I don't have
the time to study the NVDA source code and debug the UIA/MSAA
implementation of VS to get it working.
Nor do I have the time or energy to learn a new screen reader, which
will undoubtedly trade old problems for new ones.
I hope you're able to make some progress figuring out why NVDA still
doesn't work properly with intellisense.
I'll be listening for an update.
Cheers,
Ian Reed
On 6/7/2019 11:26 AM, Dante Gagne (Redacted sender danteg for DMARC) wrote:
Ian, thanks for being so open on this.
I wish I could say that you're the only one running into this, but you're not
the first to report it. We've had multiple problems specifically with delays
and NVDA and we've run into problems multiple times on figuring out exactly
what the cause is.
We don't want to make any kinds of comments about why users should use one
screen reader or another, so our goal is to ensure compatibility with all
screen readers... but when we run into issues on a specific AT, fixing the
issue is much more challenging.
I will say that I've taken your feedback here and I'm taking it to my senior management to figure
out how we get this issue fixed. I can't even begin to talk about how many reports I see on a
frequent basis with headlines like "What's preventing upgrades" and you're basically
putting up a big flashing sign that says "I CAN'T!!"
I'm reaching out to Stefan as well (offlist) to see if perhaps he has some
insights on the root cause here, but all I can say is that we have a mandate
*NOT* to prioritize one screen reader over another, and YOUR screen reader of
choice shouldn't be based on compatibility with our software.
--Dante
-----Original Message-----
From: program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf
Of Ian Reed
Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2019 6:14 PM
To: program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Dante Gagne (Redacted sender danteg for DMARC)
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [program-l] Re: vs 2017/2019 c# intellisense suggestions is not read
by nvda anymore
Sorry if I've missed an update, but last I heard, (and tested) intellisense in
Windows 10 with VS 2017 or VS 2019 and NVDA was reading the entire line before
it would read the selected intellisense item.
This makes it pretty close to unusable.
Then of course there was this email thread I am responding to that says it
stopped working entirely.
Now I just saw an new email asking about the preferred way to present
Intellicode items.
Just wondering, has the issue with NVDA reading the entire line before each
intellisense item in VS 2019 been fixed?
What about the issue with intellisense not reading whatsoever in VS 2017 and
2019?
Worrying about how intellicode is presented seems premature if either of these
issues have not yet been resolved.
Also, last I checked, in Windows 7, VS 2017 intellisense doesn't speak at all
in NVDA.
I'm sure nobody even checks the accessibility of new versions of VS in Windows
7 anymore, based on the below email, it is apparently hard enough just to keep
accessibility working in the latest version of the OS, but just thought you
should know.
I've been programming full time in C# since 2004 (only lost my vision in late
2010), and I still use VS 2010 on Windows 7, because last time I tried to
upgrade to VS 2017, intellisense didn't work at all.
Also, NVDA does not read anything from the VS 2010 texte editor in Windows 10.
Not sure why the exact same version of VS is entirely inaccessible in Windows
10, but works fine in Windows 7.
I get that I am using an old VS, so can't expect anyone to check why an old VS
works fine in Windows 7 but not Windows 10, but how am I supposed to upgrade to
VS 2019 if intellisense is still broken?
And I certainly can't rely on new versions of Visual Studio working in Windows
7, as is apparent with VS 2017 intellisense breaking permantly in Windows 7
with a VS update.
Upgrading is difficult, since staying on Windows 7 and upgrading VS gives me
broken intellisense, and upgrading to Windows 10 but staying on VS 2010 gives
me a broken text editor.
Upgrading both at once is more challenging, but perhaps I would be up for it if
VS 2019 on Windows 10 actually held the promise of working intellisense in NVDA.
It seems weird, but I feel much safer in Windows 7 and VS 2010, where Windows
10 updates cannot break my intellisense, and VS 2010 no longer receives any
updates.
I probably sound like an old man, using older products, but mostly I just like
basic features such as intellisense to consistently work, not break randomly
with an update to either the OS or the IDE.
I don't even need a lot of features to work consistently, as evidenced by my
continued use of older products, which most would say had plenty of their own
accessibility issues.
I really do appreciate that there are people at Microsoft who care about
accessibility, especially in the VS division.
So thank you Dante, and Allison, for trying.
Good luck to you, and let me know if you think you get to a point where
intellisense actually reads properly in NVDA, and will continue to do so going
forward.
Then I think I'd love to upgrade to VS 2019, take advantage of some newer C#
language features, and actually care about how intellicode items are presented.
~ Ian Reed
On 5/2/2019 10:16 AM, Dante Gagne (Redacted sender danteg for DMARC) wrote:
The regression is related to a Windows update to .NET Framework 4.8. Here's the** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
details:
For VS 2017, we have a fix in the works that should release in the next week or
two.
For VS 2019, there is an update coming either next week or the week after if
you need to stay on Update 0 (GA), or you can update to VS2019 Update 1 which
should be available next week and that should fix the issue.
You can either use the latest Update 1 Preview which is available now.
I'm really sorry about the hassle, and thankfully, our fixes should be out next
week... which is unfortunate for folks who are using it THIS week.
--Dante
-----Original Message-----
From: program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Behalf Of gozaltech
Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2019 6:44 PM
To: program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [program-l] vs 2017/2019 c# intellisense suggestions is not
read by nvda anymore
hello all.
from yesterday, for some reason nvda stopped reading intellisense suggestions
of net editor in vs 2017/2019.
i've tried to reinstall them, but nothing improved.
do you have any advices how to return intellisense accessibility back?
thanks.
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