[oxnatbees] Re: Position of new box

  • From: Sarah Pulvertaft <sarah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: oxnatbees@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 18:24:51 +0100

Hi everyone I have a swarm at just above head height in a tree in my garden - anyone want to come and get it? I’m in Taston OX7 3JL home phone 01608 810757Sarah

Sent from my iPhone

On 11 May 2022, at 14:20, Jane denby <dmarc-noreply-outsider@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Dear MaryWe would be happy to help, and we can cycle around easily to you. We are busy this weekend but usually are free. Just give us a shout!CheersJane and Patrick07920485756 (Jane)
On 11 May 2022, at 09:49, Jane and Patrick Denby <janedenby@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

  
From: oxnatbees-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <oxnatbees-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>On Behalf OfOxnatbees <oxnatbees@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: 11 May 2022 09:49:31 (UTC+00:00) Dublin, Edinburgh, Lisbon, London
To: oxnatbees@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <oxnatbees@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [oxnatbees] Re: Position of new box

I think Mary needs to clarify something. I have a fuzzy memory that she only has bars in her top box, so you can't just prise the stack of boxes apart and lift them one by one - the comb is very long,  running continuously through 3 boxes. So they need to be lifted as one, by 2 strong people.
Is that correct, Mary?
Paul
On Wed, 11 May 2022, 08:41 Helen Nunn, <helenmaynunn@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Mary I was waiting to hear Paul's response to your question before stepping smartly forward to offer moral support! His answer was very clear and helpful, and I followed that advice earlier this year (April 11) when I put a box underneath my Warre. It was much easier than I had feared! The boxes above tilted happily and I laid them on their fronts in wheelbarrows nearby, to avoid ground-level lifting. The bees hardly noticed what was going on. For once I lit my smoker and just gave a puff to make it easier to replace the boxes. So if your hive is equally calm, I'm happy to come along and help. However, I can't lift as I still have a painful arm, so you may need another strong helper. (But I did manage myself, "pre-arm-problem".)
Let me know what you decide. Helen


On Tue, 10 May 2022 at 22:55, Oxnatbees <oxnatbees@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Interesting question.
Well, the short answer is - you could put the half height box on top AND definitely put a full size box on the bottom.
Reasoning:
Last year I tried the box-on-top because I'd seen Gareth do it and the bees simply packed it with honey - for him. But in my case - they ignored the box completely and it was still empty at the end of the year! Gareth explained to me that if you put a top box on too late in the year, the bees ignore it because they're sort of programmed to ignore that space - "we've filled that space now". My records say I added that box on 20th July so we can conclude that is definitely too late! I'd say putting a box on top is worth a try but you need a backup plan in case they ignore it, thus you want the box on the bottom too as your colony will be looking for space now it has filled the current bottom box and at this time of year.
Now, the reason you put Warre boxes on the bottom is to provide space in the natural direction of comb growth and have comb cycle up the hive. When Warre designed his hive, he had unlimited strong young monks to do the heavy lifting (he was an abbot) and he believed it was healthier for the bees to build new comb rather than raise brood on very old comb. So the concept is that the bees are continually generating new comb as they build downwards, and you "simply" add boxes below thus never let them reach the floor. Boxes in a Warre stack are meant to migrate up the stack over a few seasons, you stick new ones at the bottom. Around September / October the brood nest contracts out of the top one(s) and you take away (harvest) ones at the top. 
The idea is that the comb for the nest never gets too clogged with cocoons etc. (Gareth discussed how bees manage old comb in wild nests in his post on 8th May titled "lifecycle of honeycomb"). (You can debate whether old comb really is bad for bees, and whether you should expand the hive to discourage swarms at all, but let's not overcomplicate this post).
So I think that as you are one retired person and not a group of strapping young monks, now is the time for 2 helpful volunteers living near you in Headington/Oxford area to step forward to say "we will lift the hive for you while you slide a box in below". 
Volunteers, anyone? Anyone?
Paul
On Tue, 10 May 2022 at 21:55, <maryevelynbaker@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear Paul and everyone

Talking about swarms, I looked in my hive with a red torch just now and found the bottom (of three) box by the cold entrance (usually empty) is now full of bees and comb. The comb looks new and what I can see that isn’t covered by bees seems to be empty.

I think I should add another box. Can I put it on the top of the stack?  Taking the whole stack apart to put it on the bottom would be quite messy as I think it might mean breaking some comb to move the boxes one by one. I know it’s supposed to go at the bottom but I’ve forgotten why.  I believe it’s ok to put boxes on top to collect honey.    I have got a half-height box and a normal one to use.

Perhaps it’s a bit late in the season to put in another box but the bottom box has always been empty - I haven’t looked inside for a couple of weeks.

I probably know why I should put the new box at the bottom, I’ve had it explained many times before but it would be lovely if I could just put one on top…. Or should I just make a swarm box quickly. I couldn’t see any queen cells - there didn’t seem to be any room for them, the bees have built comb side on to the windows and it is attached to the windows except in the bottom box where it hasn’t quite reached the glass. I was hoping the activity of the bees wasn’t them gorging on honey before swarming…

The bees love the new pond and it is buzzing with them.

Thank you for your wise and kind advice.

Mary
PS the bottom board below the mesh floor is still in place.


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