Well spotted Ann.
This is from a paper by by David de Jong published in 1982:
"This paper presents evidence that memory of a previously used comb direction
influences the building of the new set of combs. Swarms which have recently
moved into bait-hives (empty boxes placed in trees to attract feral swarms)
tend to maintain the previously used comb direction when removed and forced to
build new combs, whereas swarms which have occupied the bait-hives for a longer
period (over 9 days) do not.
Recent swarms predictably alter their comb building direction within the
influence of an applied earthstrength magnetic field, indicating that honey
bees are able to use the earth's magnetic field as a reference at the
commencement of comb construction in a new hive."
The paper is available open source here
<https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00612015> if anyone wants to read
it.
Gareth
On 28 Apr 2019, at 22:54, Peter Hodson <peterhodson2010@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Wonderful thinking
On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 at 10:44 pm, Oxnatbees <oxnatbees@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:oxnatbees@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hi Ann,
this makes sense. And I am a fan of "wu wei", going with the flow rather than
against it. If the bees want to build in direction XY, orient the hive so the
bars go that way, yes.
Occasionally, you can't easily reorient a hive. For example if this would
mean the beeline crosses an area with a lot of human traffic.
To support your argument: people have tried continuously rotating hives, a
few degrees a day. The bees continue to build in the same direction so you
end up with e.g. spiral combs.
Paul
On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 at 19:24, Ann Welch <ann.welch123@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ann.welch123@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hi Paul and all,
Something occurred to me on the way to the forum ha ha. In fact I don't know
why this didn't occur to me sooner but hey-ho !
Just to set the scene.....I sent an e-mail a little while ago documenting the
postmortem of one of my hives. (I've attached a few of the pictures again to
illustrate). The e-mail was about one of my colonies that absconded from a
Warre due to relentless wasp attack last September and subsequently, in the
process of inspecting (postmortem) the hive, I'd found that they'd clearly
had a penchant for building comb in a north south direction, (as does a
daughter colony of this one). I'm aware Paul that at the time I sent my
e-mail you replied and pointed out that there are other opinions on this
subject that suggest other bees might choose to build according to "other"
preferences; east west, or familial etc....however.... what occurred to me,
(and why I'm revisiting this idea), is that which ever direction their
preference is, it's clear that bees use "something" in order to replicate
their "chosen" direction. If that were not the case, their comb would
always be random from hive to hive and there would have been no reason for
them to have built comb in my Warre in any other direction, other than that
of their existing comb, after I'd moved it....but they did ! (see pictures
attached ....Nb; the blue arrow is intended to indicate where the entrance
was in relation to the box and comb)..... That said....
Given that we know they use the Earths magnetic field to navigate, it seems
not so crazy to suggest that they must also use Earths magnetic field in
order to define a direction in which to build their comb, whether that be in
a north south direction or an east west or according to how their granny
built it in the hive they came from. .......
SO.... my "thoughts on the way to the forum" were,...... why don't we simply
reorientate a hive "with" the direction of choice of one's own bees, once
they've started building comb? IF they are starting to cross comb,.....
instead of trying to force them to build comb where ever WE choose they
should by using frames, comb guides, wax strips or aunt Joan's washing line,
WHY don't we simply reorientate the hive ITSELF ?
If we see that our bees are beginning to cross their comb, why not simply
turn the hive to align it with the bees chosen direction ? That might mean
several minor corrections as they build, in order to take account of their
start direction (usually along a straight "vertical" edge/wall) as they move
across the hive, but surely if we did this the end result "should be"
straight comb without the hassle ? (See the way the bees in my Warre started
building at right angles to the bars but not quite in a north south direction
because they were starting from the nearest straight "vertical" wall. They
then began to realign subsequent comb into a north south direction as they
moved across the hive. To me that's a clear indication that they had a plan
that didn't coincide with my plan for them ! So why do we insist they follow
OUR PLAN instead of us following THEIR PLAN?
The only Proviso I would add is that in a top bar hive, the sloping sides, (I
think), confuse matters as the bees can't build vertical comb along the sides
with slopes and so will build at one end of the hive where there is a
vertical "wall" to follow. I've seen this, but then they will swing round to
try to build in their chosen direction and hence crossing their comb.... and
why wouldn't they if the hive isn't in the orientation that they prefer?
It was certainly clear in my Warre that, after I relocated them to my out
apiary and therefore reorientated the boxes such that the bars NOW aligned
north south and the entrance faced due east, the bees chose to build their
new comb along the bars BUT STILL in the same orientation they'd been
building it previously, despite the fact that this meant that their new comb
was constructed at 90 degrees to their existing comb in existing boxes. I
don't think that they were at all interested in the fact that the bars had
comb guides at all, they just followed the plan they already had in their
little minds...... AND the same happened in the daughter colony that I moved
at the same time and placed along side them.
I can't ignore this evidence Paul and I will experiment in future to see if I
can replicate it. If I can and everyone else is welcome to have a go too,
(after all what is there to lose?) then that would make a massive difference
to what we already teach about siting hives wouldn't it?
Ann
