Hi Paul & Gilliane,
Moisture is not coming from a leak, the roof is very sound and there has never
been a collapse of comb either.
This is my third season and moisture has always been present. The mould is
just as you describe Paul: away from the brood and dusty green. I have removed
it, along with the slugs.
I think the presence of the moisture (can be dark brown) is more noticeable
because the sliding tray beneath the mesh is plastic and the liquid collects
there with no where to go. It’s a tight fit, which I could adjust to allow a
bit of ventilation, but the bees wouldn’t be able to control this. Hence, my
idea to create a few small gaps between the top bars, which the bees can
moderate with propolis, if they want to.
So very keen to get rid of the mesh and plastic floor and replace with cedar!
Kerry
From: Oxnatbees<mailto:oxnatbees@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: 09 July 2021 22:01
To: oxnatbees@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:oxnatbees@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [oxnatbees] Re: Hungry bees
Kerry, I'm not sure what to say but here are some thoughts.
I have seen a couple of TBHs with leaky roofs - one was mine last winter, when
I placed the roof back on slightly wrong and the next time I inspected realised
rain had got in along one side. In the other case there was a leak in the roof
between plank joints. In both cases the comb went mouldy where rain got in, but
it is easy to see if this is the problem - when you take the roof off the bars
are discoloured an damp in a patch below the leak.
My TBHs don't exhibit problems with humidity but they are not hermetically
sealed. Their far-end entrance is covered by a grill so a through draft is
possible, and they have mesh floors which, whilst covered by a panel most of
the time, do leak a bit of air. Umm... you say water leaks out the bottom so I
guess you have a mesh floor too.
Are you sure it is condensation coming out the bottom - not nectar from
collapsed comb?
I can't remember how long you have had TBHs. Have you seen this before? If not
what do you think is different this year?
You often see slightly mouldy comb after winter - comb which got cold away from
the cluster, then had condensation on it for a couple of months. It looks like
a light dusting of grey-green powder. But mould is not normal in summer.
Wrap copper tape round the legs to stop slugs creeping up and in. (It's sold in
garden centres.)
That's all I can think of for the moment: does any of this remind you of any
other observations that might be relevant?
Paul
On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 at 17:56, Kerry Dawson
<kerrydawson99@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:kerrydawson99@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Paul, you said: If you make the top cloth too solid with flour, or beeswax, the
hive can't "breathe" into the quilt box. So, don't make a perfect seal wirh
your chosen stiffener - make it thin and leave a few gaps.
This is useful to know, because my TBH bars are very tight and form a perfect
seal. The hive carries a lot of moisture. I had to remove some mouldy comb
recently and there is sometimes moisture dripping out the bottom. And a few
resident slugs. Perhaps I should remove a spacer or two and create a small gap
between the bars for ventilation, which the bees can propolise if they want to.
This way the pillow of shavings above the bars can take up the slack moisture
and hopefully provide some humidity regulation.
From: Oxnatbees<mailto:oxnatbees@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: 09 July 2021 14:26
To: oxnatbees@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:oxnatbees@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [oxnatbees] Re: Hungry bees
Yes, loose canvas etc. The only constraint is to be wary of things potentially
treated with insecticide. Some hessian sacks are treated thus, to preserve
foods stored inside them, so be careful if re-using those.
Paul
On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 at 14:04, mike pighills
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Thanks Brian and Paul; glad it is relativly normal.
I have replaced with a piece of calico for the time being, I assume anything
robust and breathable will work?
Best wishes
Mike
On Fri, 9 Jul 2021, 13:41 Oxnatbees,
<oxnatbees@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:oxnatbees@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Really good photo, love the neat stripes.
Just to add to Brian's comment...
Some colonies nibble the hessian top cloth in Warre hives, more than others.
(Top cloths are not used in TBHs or Nationals.) The gnawing through the top
cloth isn't really a problem in itself, the problem comes from the fact that
they will probably continue to chew, up through the next layer - the one that
holds the insulation in the quilt box. The insulation then begins to fall into
the hive; the bees begin building comb in the quilt box, etc. Messy. So count
on replacing top cloths maybe once a year for nibblers, but they may last 3
years with some colonies.
The reccommended thing to do with a top cloth, in case you've got a bad case of
the nibblers, is to stiffen it with something non toxic like a thin flour and
water paste, or beeswax.
In practise, the original strictures on ingedients for the paste (wholemeal
flour etc) have been found to be unimportant. I use a thin paste of whatever
flour is around, with water and use my fingers to spread that on a top cloth,
then hang it on the washing line so it dries flat.
To apply beeswax, use a hairdryer and spread it thinly with a knife like butter
on toast!
BUT - very important - whichever method you use, it must not form a complete
seal. The hive must be able to 'breathe' through it.
Now about those stripes. They're propolis, on the underside of the top cloth.
Propolis has an interesting property - it is permeable to humidity. The quilt
box in a Warre acts not just as a heat insulatir, but a humidity buffer. If you
make the top cloth too solid with flour, or beeswax, the hive can't "breathe"
into the quilt box. So, don't make a perfect seal wirh your chosen stiffener -
make it thin and leave a few gaps.
Paul
On Fri, 9 Jul 2021, 12:56 Brian Fiddian,
<brian.fiddian@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:brian.fiddian@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Ours have done this too. Perhaps they are just having a look to see what’s
there?
They only seem to make one hole and then propolise it. I have put another piece
of hessian on top; this prevents the holed cloth from sticking to the quilt box.
Regards Brian
From: oxnatbees-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:oxnatbees-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<oxnatbees-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:oxnatbees-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> On
Behalf Of mike pighills (Redacted sender "mike.pighills" for DMARC)
Sent: 09 July 2021 10:17
To: oxnatbees@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:oxnatbees@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [oxnatbees] Hungry bees
Hi
Just doing a quick roof inspection on a Warre populated last year and found
that the bees are chewing through the top cloth, they seem to have plenty of
stores just wondering what causes this (or is it normal). any ideas?....
Best wishes
Mike
