When SQL first came on the scene it was sold as a language where the user specified 'what' they wanted, not 'How" to retrieve it. I find it ironically amusing that so much effort is made to try to tell SQL 'How' to retrieve the data using cryptic hints and the esoteric knowledge of SQL CBO gurus. Perhaps what we really need is a good PQL. Mike -- //www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l