Re: RE: Outer Joins are Evil?
- From: tim@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- To: oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:32:53 -0600 (MDT)
Ryan,
Always design for reality. The person that Steve described wishes to alter
reality to fit a theory. As Cary, Karen, and several others have mentioned,
outer-joins are not a design choice. They are an implementation mechanism, one
of several available to resolve the situation of childless parent entities. It
happens to be a good solution (perhaps the best) for that particular situation.
Pay attention to the rules of relational design and, in the case of data
warehouses, pay special attention to minimize complexity by designing a
dimensional data model. Data warehouses simply have no need to present every
nuance and attribute, the full "richness", of the data which is necessary for
the purpose of enforcing business rules, as operational system do. They only
need to present the data, accurately and consistently, for optimal retrieval.
Nowhere in the design of either type of system should implementation mechanisms
like "outer joins" be considered, ideally.
In short, first design the "what" and then implement the "how", and don't
confuse the order.
Hope this helps...
-Tim
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From: ryan_gaffuri@xxxxxxxxxxx
To: oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Outer Joins are Evil?
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:05:51 +0000
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when you design an oltp system do you take outer joins inter consideration and
attempt to minimize them at the design level?
tim gorman mentioned that he does not for datawarehouses.
-------------- Original message --------------
> Sounds like excuses...not reasons. What evidence do they provide to
> support their conclusion that outer joins are bad? It looks a bit like
> an attempt to disguise a fear of doing full table scans or something
> like that.
>
> Outer joins, like pretty much everything else, are not "inherently
> evil". They are another option/tool to be used appropriately when and
> where needed. While I don't disagree with using default values in FK
> columns and the like, doing it only with the justification of avoiding
> outer joins is a bit near-sighted. Eliminating any one thing out of
> fear of what "it" may do seems to me to be more a fear of poorly written
> code as a result of misusing the feature. If it's really the fear of
> bad code, then teach people how to properly use the tool and do not take
> the tool out of the box entirely instead.
>
>
> Karen Morton
> Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
> http://www.hotsos.com
> Upcoming events at http://www.hotsos.com/education/schedule.html
>
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