A little piece of email today told me the following: "... a full 60 percent of DBAs do not know how to implement database security measures, according to Forrester Research". Does that figure seem to be: - too high - too low - just about right - Cowboy Neil Inquring minds want to know. Personally, I think that the phrase lacks the term "properly", as in "properly implement database security measures". "shutdown abort" or "lsnrctl stop" would be examples of "improperly implement database security measures". Paul