So far, I have missed every opportunity to see C. J. Date. The one time I thought for sure I would get to see, hear and maybe meet him was at Hotsos a couple years ago, and I missed it, as he was unable to attend. I had mixed feelings about it however, as I was presenting on normalization, and wasn't sure my presentation was ready for the scrutiny of such a demanding audience. :) Browsing around on the Method-R site I see that they are providing a another opportunity to get in a C. J. Date Seminar in January 2010: "How to Write Correct SQL and Know It: A Relational Approach to SQL" You can see the details at http://method-r.com/education/107-cj-date-course One of these days I will make it to a Date seminar. Jared Still Certifiable Oracle DBA and Part Time Perl Evangelist Oracle Blog: http://jkstill.blogspot.com Home Page: http://jaredstill.com