[opendtv] Re: Is TiVo the bully of DVR design? - patents
- From: "Allen Le Roy Limberg" <allimberg@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 18:20:06 -0400
I always liked the patent to the fuzzy keyhole that you could find by feel
in the dark.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Meehan, John" <JMeehan@xxxxxxx>
To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 4:55 PM
Subject: [opendtv] Re: Is TiVo the bully of DVR design? - patents
> Want a laugh over the weekend? Check out this link..
>
> http://www.freepatentsonline.com/crazy.html
>
> I've heard that #6368227 - "Method of swinging on a swing" was filed
> before the dot-com crash by a lawyer & his young son, to show him how to
> file, and that the system is really broken.
>
> It was around the same time that Amazon was awarded the "1-click
> ordering" patent.
>
> John Meehan
> JVC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Tom Barry
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 4:43 PM
> To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [opendtv] Re: Is TiVo the bully of DVR design?
>
> I really don't know what to do about our silly unworkable patent system.
>
> I suppose I'm lucky it is not my problem to solve.
>
> Some inventions are just inevitable due to the availability of other
> emerging technology. It is still nice to reward those who notice them
> first but giving a monopoly to the first person making it to the market
> or the patent office can't really do much to further the common good.
>
> There should be some way to incentivize practical new ideas without
> otherwise crippling the march of those ideas by giving them to lawyers.
>
> Can anyone imagine a workable system?
>
> - Tom
>
> Manfredi, Albert E wrote:
> > Amazing unfolding of events. The courts have affirmed their previous
> > decision that copy-while-playing-back is a TiVo exclusive feature and
> > not something every DVR can be expected to offer. And the Hollywood
> > studios continue to oppose the idea of a virtual DVR in the cable
> > network.
> >
> > Makes it look like TiVo is the only DVR game in town. And none of this
> > hinges on vague arguments about GUI or EPG or other such TiVo
> > cleverness.
> >
> > Bert
> >
> > ----------------------------------------
> > http://www.digitaltvdesignline.com/howto/settopboxdesign/192204952
> >
> > August 24, 2006
> >
> > Is TiVo the bully of DVR design?
> >
> > By Cliff Roth
> >
> > For digital video recorder designers Friday August 18 may go down in
> > history as a dark day. A U.S. Circuit Court judge in East Texas upheld
> > an April jury decision that EchoStar, parent of the popular Dish
> > satellite-TV service, had violated patents awarded to TiVo in their
> DVR
> > set top boxes. At issue was not TiVo's clever user interface (by
> > contrast EchoStar's is quite clunky) or anything else that most
> > designers would think of as TiVo-specific. Rather, it was something
> much
> > broader, more basic, and what most engineers would probably consider
> > rather essential to the proper functioning of any DVR: the ability to
> > simultaneously record and play--that is, writing to the hard drive
> while
> > reading from the same drive.
> >
> > The jury awarded TiVo some $89 million in damages, although they said
> > EchoStar acted in good faith when designing their set top boxes. An
> > initial order to immediately de-activate some four million EchoStar
> DVR
> > boxes was delayed, pending an appeal.
> >
> > If the jury's decision continues to be upheld, the effects for set top
> > box industry can be devastated. A patent-holder is under no obligation
> > to license their intellectual property, and TiVo can ultimately
> require
> > that not just EchoStar, but also DirecTV, Scientific Atlanta,
> Motorola,
> > Pioneer, and every other manufacturer and service provider for
> cable-TV
> > and satellite-TV boxes will have to recall their products or disable
> the
> > ability to play and record simultaneously. Or switch to TiVo branded
> > service.
> >
> > If that happens, TiVo would have a virtual monopoly on the DVR market.
> >
> > It wouldn't be the first time that a single company essentially locked
> > up a major aspect of interactive TV with aggressive patent litigation.
> > That was precisely Gemstar's strategy, with the electronic program
> guide
> > (EPG). Gemstar has claimed, through a variety of lawsuits, their
> patents
> > (purchased, incidentally, from the now-defunct StarSight) essentially
> > cover the very idea of the EPG. A few years back, in fact, they sued
> > TiVo, resulting in an out-of-court settlement. That settlement, of
> > course, was not just monetary but insured that TV Guide (Gemstar's
> EPG)
> > would be a part of TiVo products.
> >
> > Similarly, this is likely TiVo's ultimate plan: Rather than forcing
> > EchoStar, DirecTV, Time Warner, Comcast and everyone else from
> marketing
> > set top boxes with built-in DVRs, they want all these companies to
> > switch to TiVo's branded DVR service.
> >
> > In the ten short years since DVRs first appeared on the market, we've
> > already seen innovation stifled to the point where there's been
> > practically nothing new for quite a while, other than upgrading to
> HDTV.
> > RePlay, the most innovative company in the field, following a
> > Hollywood-backed lawsuit and bankruptcy ultimately stopped making set
> > top boxes completely last December.
> >
> > Now TiVo threatens to really put the nail in the coffin of any future
> > DVR innovation. Isn't the ability to simultaneously record and play on
> a
> > hard disk really a generic capability of any DVR?
> >
> > The U.S. patent office has issued several notorious patents over the
> > past few years of comparable outrageousness -- the infamous Amazon
> "one
> > click ordering" patent comes to mind, as well as the one in the
> > pre-Internet early 90s that gave Compton's a patent on the very
> concept
> > of hyper-linking and multimedia.
> >
> > The entire set top box manufacturing industry should get behind
> EchoStar
> > and support their appeal. Fortunately, EchoStar has historically spent
> > heavily on legal expenses (including another, unrelated current battle
> > over transmission of distant signals.)
> >
> > But with so much of this industry now based outside the U.S., and much
> > of it in Asia beyond the reach of U.S. patent law, there's also the
> > distinct possibility that this will play out globally as a local
> story.
> > Whether TiVo really has the muscle, legal or otherwise, to create a
> > worldwide monopoly on DVRs is doubtful.
> >
> > EchoStar says they're going back to the drawing boards to design a DVR
> > disk drive system that doesn't violate TiVo's patent. Good luck to
> them.
> > If the patent could be interpreted as applying only to a certain
> > technique for simultaneous record and playback, and not the broad
> > concept, then perhaps the chilling effect on the set top box industry
> > won't be so severe. But note that when TiVo was first introduced, back
> > around 1997, they explained that they had designed their split-screen
> > EPG specifically to work around Gemstar's patents. It hardly prevented
> > Gemstar's suit.
> >
> > Meanwhile, there's another highly contentious technology that some
> > cable-TV companies have just recently introduced which might offer a
> > true alternative: network DVR service, in which the hard drives are
> > located not in the customer's set top box, but in big servers at the
> > cable system's head end. Just one problem with this approach:
> Hollywood
> > has already started filing lawsuits.
> >
> > DVRs are clearly a very litigious product category. Watch out.
> >
> > All material on this site Copyright 2006 CMP Media LLC. All rights
> > reserved
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
> >
> > - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
> FreeLists.org
> >
> > - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
> unsubscribe in the subject line.
> >
> >
>
> --
> Tom Barry trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Now seeking new full time position as video software developer
> Find my resume and video filters at www.trbarry.com
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>
> - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
> FreeLists.org
>
> - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
> unsubscribe in the subject line.
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>
> - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
FreeLists.org
>
> - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
unsubscribe in the subject line.
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
FreeLists.org
- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
unsubscribe in the subject line.
Other related posts:
