Linda, I would differ from Dave Irons on several points. I agree that Northern Shrikes are paler than Loggerheads. Compare soft gray T-shirt, sky, or sea vs. GUN-METAL GRAY, respectively. I wouldn't say that most of the Northern Shrikes we see in Oregon are immatures, i.e. the brown-colored birds. I've seen plenty of adult Northerns. Carol & I saw BOTH kinds of shrike in the same day regularly on our winter raptor routes in Gilliam county over the last many years. We did see BOTH species sitting up on power lines, too. (Gilliam county has limited perches). JIZZ (GISS = general impression, size, shape): Things you can spot a couple power-poles away, before you get up to the bird. Carol says Loggerhead Shrikes are plumper, with shorter tails. Northerns sit taller, leaner, with longer tails. Northern Shrike: Larger Paler Black mask doesn't meet over the bill. Base of bill is pale Large bill has a definite hook (think miniature eagle beak) Adults have a fish-scale underparts Immature is similar, but brown instead of black-white-and-gray Loggerhead Shrike: Smaller Dark crown, back, tail Black mask meets over the bill Base of bill is dark Smaller bill, finch-like (think purple finch, pine grosbeak) Clean white tummy Immature is not brown. So when I look at Pam Otley's flickr photos, from left to right: 1. Northern shrike on pale gray sign - the bird is pale like the sign, mask doesn't meet over bill, eye is a bump above the mask, base of bill pale 2. Northern shrike on two-toned sign - the bird is pale, mask doesn't meet over bill, base of bill pale 3. Northern shrike on post - the bird is pale, mask doesn't meet over bill, base of bill pale, can't see hook of bill 4. Loggerhead Shrike in willows - crown & nape gun-metal gray, mask meets over bill, bill small, bird smaller, tummy clean white 5. Loggerhead Shrike in willows - crown & nape gray less noticeable, mask meets over bill, bill small, bird smaller, tummy clean white 6. Loggerhead Shrike in willows - crown & nape gun-metal gray, mask meets over bill, bill small, bird smaller, tummy clean white 7. Loggerhead Shrike in willows - crown & nape gray less noticeable, mask meets over bill, eye inside the mask, bill small, bird smaller, tummy clean white Hope this helps. Paul Sulllivan & Carol Karlen McMinnville