Agree completely on molt analysis. I've long believed that concentration
on molt is ill-placed as Bob states. Useful but not definitive..
But that is just an opinion. There must be concrete evidence out there.
Perhaps this gull should be submitted to ID Frontiers. Alvaro recently
published an exhaustive paper on SBGU as Shawneed has noted. And he, at
least, would pick it up.
Bob OBrien Carver OR
On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 9:51 PM Bob Archer <rabican1@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Vagrants can suspend molts until they settle in on winter grounds. And
LBBG’s molt timing can vary greatly as can other gulls. So I do not think
you can count on a molt pattern to eliminate a NA Gull, a winter visitor to
NA like LBBG or an Asian gull like heuglini. And size was tough to
determine when I saw it on water, but gulls vary in size while there are
differences in averages, there is overlap. It had the structure of an LBBG
and did not appear all that big, but tough to call.
Bob
On Nov 1, 2021, at 6:57 PM, larspernorgren <larspernorgren@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
The taxonomy of gulls on the north Siberian Coast is still largely
speculative. Wingmolt of the Harborview bird is not consistent with any N
American species, and the black primary tips all the way to P7 are typical
of heuglini. This is a big bird, the size of many Olympic Gulls around it.
That too is consistent with heuglini. Two decades ago some folks suggested
taimyrensis was a Vega × Heuglin's hybrid swarm, but the Dutch Gull
Research Organization did genetic work about 2011 that supports Taimyr Gull
as an independent taxon. Whether it's a subspecies of Heuglin's or a full
species is the question.
Lesser Blackbacks are typically bigger than California but smaller
than all the pinkfoots.The morning is wiser than the evening.
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Bob Archer <rabican1@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: 11/1/21 4:40 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: tlove@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: OBOL <obol@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [obol] Re: Siberian gull at Harborview Park
Structure to me says LBBG with maybe some Herring. If you want to get to
a subspecies, you need to list what subspecies list you are using. But I am
sticking with graellsii. The other two are closer to black than grey (
fuscus and inter(sp?)). Bill, long legs, long pointed wings. I posted same
feelings on fbook a few days ago and did not get any feedback except
suggesting birulai. Not sure if he meant that as the Herring mix or entire
bird.
Bob Archer
On Nov 1, 2021, at 4:17 PM, Thomas Love <tlove@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
It's been a fascinating discussion of an interesting bird. I've enjoyed
Larid experts weighing in. But is there any resolution on the ID of this
bird?
Tom
