[net-gold] John Dewey Lives - A Dialogue
- From: "David P. Dillard" <jwne@xxxxxxxxxx>
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- Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 08:25:28 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 15:16:58 -0700
From: Richard Hake <rrhake@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: Net-Gold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: AERA-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Net-Gold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Net-Gold] John Dewey Lives - A Dialogue
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ABSRACT: Kevin Stacey in an AERA-C post titled
"Bill Ayers 'exhumes' John Dewey for a
conversation on progressive education" pointed to
an article "John Dewey Lives - A Dialogue" [Ayers
& Schubert (2012)] at <http://bit.ly/Jp4bxF>].
This is an edited transcript of a conversation
between educators William C. Ayers (WCA) and
William H. Schubert (WHS), with the latter, WHS,
former president of the John Dewey Society
<http://bit.ly/JrxTlF>, playing the role of John
Dewey (JD).
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In one exchange WCA asks WHS (JD) to respond to
Glenn Beck's assertion that Dewey thought
"Teachers aren't there to tell a child if he or
she is right or wrong ? THEY'RE THERE TO HELP THE
CHILD THROUGH A TOUCHY-FEELY PERIOD OF SELF
DISCOVERY."
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WHS (JD) responded that in "Experience and
Education" Dewey (1938. 1997) had written that
"in considering the difference between
traditional and progressive education, we
shouldn't just take one side or the other, but we
should look at a deeper level where they can both
be integrated." And in "Democracy and Education"
Dewey (1916; 1997) had written that "EDUCATION IS
RECONSTRUCTION AND REORGANIZATION OF EXPERIENCE
WHICH ADDS TO THE MEANING OF EXPERIENCE, AND
WHICH INCREASES ABILITY TO DIRECT THE COURSE OF
SUBSEQUENT EXPERIENCE. . . . SO IT'S NOT JUST A
CATERING TO INTERESTS.
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For another exhumation of John Dewey see Ted
Ansbacher's incisive "An Interview with John
Dewey on Science Education" [Ansbacher (2000)
<http://bit.ly/I89zmr> (click on "articles in
pdf" at the top of the page)].
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Kevin Stacy (2012) in his AERA-C post "Bill Ayers
'exhumes' John Dewey for a conversation on
progressive education" has pointed to an article
"John Dewey Lives - A Dialogue" [Ayers & Schubert
(2012)]. This is an edited transcript of a
conversation between educators William C. Ayers
(WCA) and William H. Schubert (WHS) with WHS,
former president of the John Dewey Society
<http://bit.ly/JrxTlF>, playing the role of John
Dewey (JD). A full video of the conversation is
also available at <http://on.fb.me/IND6lU>.
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Here is an excerpt from the transcript [my CAPS]:
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WCA: "Glenn Beck is a conservative commentator on
television and radio. And BECK POSITS YOUR WORK
AS THE DEVIL'S WORK IN EDUCATION, as a lot of
conservatives do. . . . .this is what Beck (2010.
p.xx) says about progressive education. Beck
(2010) says: "Progressive education began with
the goal of providing a nurturing environment
that aimed at kids' hearts rather than their
heads. The movement leader, John Dewey, was a
champion of education reform and believed the
whole 'teachers teach students facts' was so
nineteenth century. ? Teachers aren't there to
tell a child if he or she is right or wrong ?
THEY'RE THERE TO HELP THE CHILD THROUGH A
TOUCHY-FEELY PERIOD OF SELF-DISCOVERY." So that's
how Glenn Beck characterizes your work. And even
though it may seem extreme to an audience like
this, I don't think it's far-fetched to think
that a lot of people would reduce your ideas to
terms like 'child-centered,' 'experience,'
'fun-not-facts.' So maybe you could comment on
that.
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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JD/WHS:. . . . . . In ("Experience and Education"
(Dewey 1938, 1997) I argued that it was a mistake
for the Progressive Education Association to
split over social reconstruction on the one side
and child-centeredness on the other side, and I
was trying my best to get them to reconcile those
differences. IN CONSIDERING THE DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN TRADITIONAL AND PROGRESSIVE EDUCATION, WE
SHOULDN'T JUST TAKE ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER, BUT WE
SHOULD LOOK AT A DEEPER LEVEL WHERE THEY CAN BOTH
BE INTEGRATED Throughout my whole career, in both
philosophy and education, I strove to work on the
resolution of dualistic thinking. To think
progressive on the one side and traditional on
the other side is a mistake. Experience, yes, but
I hate the pejorative phrase "just experience"
because experience is so powerful. And as a
matter of fact, when I was thinking about my
experiences at the Lab School about 10 years
later, after I was at Columbia, and I wrote
"Democracy and Education" (Dewey 1916), I arrived
at what I thought was a definition of education.
I said that education is "RECONSTRUCTION AND
REORGANIZATION OF EXPERIENCE WHICH ADDS TO THE
MEANING OF EXPERIENCE, AND WHICH INCREASES
ABILITY TO DIRECT THE COURSE OF SUBSEQUENT
EXPERIENCE." So I mean that's what education
should be about - having students engage with
teachers, asking the questions of what's worth
knowing and learning and doing and being and
becoming. What kind of life can and should I
create? And why? Those are fundamental questions.
The disciplines of knowledge and the areas of
study all speak to those questions if you look
deeply enough. So IT'S NOT JUST A CATERING TO
INTERESTS, you see.
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For an earlier exhumation of John Dewey, see Ted
Ansbacher's incisive "An Interview with John
Dewey on Science Education" [Ansbacher (2000)
<http://bit.ly/I89zmr> (click on "articles in
pdf" at the top of the page)].
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Richard Hake, Emeritus Professor of Physics, Indiana University
<rrhake@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Links to Articles: <http://bit.ly/a6M5y0>
Links to SDI Labs: <http://bit.ly/9nGd3M>
Blog: <http://bit.ly/9yGsXh>
Academia: <http://iub.academia.edu/RichardHake>
Twitter <https://twitter.com/#!/rrhake>
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"The belief that all genuine education comes
about through experience does not mean that all
experiences are genuinely or equally educative."
John Dewey (1938; 1997, p. 25) "Experience and Education"
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". . .the organized subject matter of the
specialist represents the goal toward which
education should continuously move."
John Dewey (1938; 1997, p. 83) "Experience and Education"
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REFERENCES [All URL's shortened by
<http://bit.ly/> and accessed on 27 April 2012.]
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Ansbacher, T. 2000. "An Interview with John Dewey
on Science Education,";Phys. Teach. 38(4):
224-227, April; online to subscribers at
<http://bit.ly/InrLvJ> and to all at Ansbacher's
site <http://bit.ly/I89zmr> / "Articles in pdf"
/ "An interview with John Dewey" (where "/"
means "click on"). A thoughtful and
well-researched treatment showing the consonance
of Dewey's educational ideas with the thinking of
most current science-education researchers (as
quoted straight from Dewey's own writings, not
from the accounts of sometimes confused Dewey
interpreters).
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Ayers, W.C. & W.H. Schubert. 2012. "John Dewey
Lives - A Dialogue," Schools: Studies in
Education 9(1): 7-26; online at
<http://bit.ly/Jp4bxF>.
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Beck, G. & K. Balfe. 2010. "Arguing with Idiots:
How to Stop Small Minds and Big Government."
Thresholds Editions, publisher's information at
<http://bit.ly/IIVlJv>, not the "Browse Inside"
feature. Amazon.com information at
<http://amzn.to/JKAO8A>, note the searchable
"Look Inside" feature.
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Dewey, J., 1916, 1997. "Democracy and
Education." Free Press. First published in 1916
by Macmillan. Amazon.com information at
<http://amzn.to/JrjsOm>, note the searchable
"Look Inside" feature. Also online at
<http://bit.ly/IK8rq1>, thanks to the "Institute
for Learning Technologies."
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Dewey, J. 1938, 1997. "Experience and Education."
Free Press. First published in 1938 by Kappa
Delta Pi. Amazon.com information at
<http://amzn.to/IWJE19>, note the searchable
"Look Inside" feature. Online as a 209 kB pdf at
<http://bit.ly/J1gVIZ> prefaced by "The great
educational theorist's most concise statement of
his ideas about the needs, the problems, and the
possibilities of education--written after his
experience with the progressive schools and in
the light of the criticisms his theories
received," thanks to Nora Egan Demers of Florida
Gulf Coast University.
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Dewey, J. 1938, 1998. "Experience and Education -
60th Anniversary Edition." Kappa Delta Pi
publications. Amazon.com information at
<http://amzn.to/IegHkK>, note the searchable
"Look Inside" feature. An expurgated Google book
preview is online at <http://bit.ly/IeLGdV>.
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Stacey, K. 2012. "Bill Ayers 'exhumes' John Dewey
for a conversation on progressive education,"
online on the OPEN! AERA-C archives at
<http://bit.ly/Iep6Ss>. Post of 24 Apr 2012
14:14:46-0400 to AERA-C. See also the Univ. of
Chicago press release at <http://bit.ly/IdaI09>.
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