[net-gold] Re: Growing Inequalities - Response To "Haim"
- From: "David P. Dillard" <jwne@xxxxxxxxxx>
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- Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 11:07:17 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 15:26:28 -0700
From: Richard Hake <rrhake@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: Net-Gold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: AERA-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Net-Gold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Net-Gold] Re: Growing Inequalities - Response To "Haim"
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ABSTRACT: In response to my post "Re: Growing Inequalities" at
<http://bit.ly/JVmTOi>, Math-Teach's Haim responded at
<http://bit.ly/KSpXrz> and seemed to suggest that: (1) immigrants
from Latin America are responsible for a significant fraction of
poverty in the United States, and (2) income inequality can be
reduced by restricting Latino immigration.
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I quote excerpts regarding poverty among: (a) foreign-born Latino
families, from Timothy Noah's book "The Great Divergence"
<http://amzn.to/KLw98C>; and (b) Hispanic children, from the U.S.
Census Bureau <http://1.usa.gov/KGCpet>, that, I think, cast doubt on
"Haim's" suggestions.
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In response to my post "Re: Growing Inequalities" [Hake (2012)],
Math-Teach's "Haim" (2012) wrote [bracketed by lines "
"HAIM"-"HAIM"-"HAIM"-. . . . ."
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HAIM"-"HAIM"-"HAIM"-"HAIM"-"HAIM"-"HAIM"
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Does Callaway, or Smith, or Noah examine the extent to which we
import inequality?
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As of the 2010 census,
<http://www.census.gov/prod/2012pubs/acs-19.pdf> 13% of the American
population, nearly 40 million people, are foreign born. This is about
the size of the entire African-American population.
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More than half the foreign born come from Latin America.
Unsurprisingly, they tend not to be the best educated. In fact, many
of them are not even Spanish speakers, and are illiterate in their
native tongues, illiterate in Spanish and, naturally, illiterate in
English. They are, in sum, badly educated and very poor.
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What do you think happens to income divergence as we import very poor
people into what was once a rather rich country? Any predictions on
how they perform in American schools?
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I can't help thinking that one quick way to ameliorate the problem is
to stop importing poor people. WHAT DO YOU THINK?
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HAIM"-"HAIM"-"HAIM"-"HAIM"-"HAIM"-"HAIM"
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"Haim" seems to be suggesting that:
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Immigrants from Latin America are responsible
for a significant fraction of poverty in the U.S. . . . . . (H1)
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Income inequality can be reduced
by restricting Latino immigration. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (H2)
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"Haim," please correct me if I'm misinterpreting you.
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My response to "Haim" is in THREE PARTS: the first indicates that
Timothy Noah (2012) does not recommend "Haim's" suggestion "H2"; the
second and third cast doubt on "Haim's" suggestion "H1" (and
indirectly on "Haim's" suggestion "H2".
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111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
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PART 1: "Haim" asks: "Does Callaway, or Smith, or Noah examine the
extent to which we import inequality?" Callaway (2012) merely points
to Smith (2012) who, in turn, merely reviews Noah's (2012) book.
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In his review, Smith summarizes Noah's suggestions for reducing
income inequality: (a) increasing taxes on the rich and enlarging the
government payroll; (b) importing more skilled labor; (c)
universalizing preschool; (d) imposing price control on colleges and
universities; (e) regulating Wall Street, and (f) revitalizing the
labor movement. I note that restricting immigration, "HAIM'S"
SUGGESTION "H2", IS NOT AMONG NOAH'S RECOMMENDATIONS.
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2222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222
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PART 2: Regarding poverty, on page 67 of Chapter 4, "Teeming Shores,"
Noah wrote:
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Noah-Noah-Noah-Noah-Noah-Noah-Noah-Noah-Noah
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Today a little more than half of the foreign-born population of the
United States hails from Mexico and Central and South America. Mexico
alone represents 30%, well ahead of the next-most-common country of
origin, China, which represent 5 percent. Twenty-eight percent of
the foreign-born are estimated to be undocumented aliens, and the
majority of those hail from Mexico. Although a substantial minority
of immigrants are highly skilled, most are not as well educated as
native-born Americans. One third never finished high-school,
compared to 13 percent of the native-born. Immigrants are also much
likelier than the native-born to be poor. Fully 17 percent of
foreign-born families (and 23% OF FOREIGN-BORN LATINOS) HAVE INCOMES
THAT PUT THEM BELOW THE POVERTY LINE (about $22,000 per year for a
family of four). The COMPARABLE PROPORTION FOR NATIVE-BORN FAMILIES
IS 9 PERCENT. The poorest foreign-born families, unsurprisingly, tend
to be the most recent arrivals.
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Noah-Noah-Noah-Noah-Noah-Noah-Noah-Noah-Noah
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In my opinion, the above INDICATED difference: 23% of foreign-born
Latino families in poverty vs 9% of native-born families in poverty
CASTS DOUBT ON "HAIM'S" SUGGESTION "H1" and (indirectly) on "Haim's"
suggestion "H2", considering that in 2010 Latino household
constituted only 12% of total U.S. households according to row #1 of
Table 3 of U.S. Census Bureau [USCB (2012)], "2010 Households and
Families: 2010": (13.5x10^6)/(117 x10^6) = 0.12 => 12%.
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333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333
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PART 3: According to the U.S. Census Bureau [USCB (2011)], "Child
Poverty in the United States 2009 and 2010: Selected Race Groups and
Hispanic Origin":
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a. More than one in five children in the United States (15.75
million) lived in poverty in 2010.
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b. The 2010 ACS CHILD POVERTY RATE (21.6 PERCENT) . . . .[[my
CAPS]]. . . . is the highest since the survey began in 2001.
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c. In the 2010 ACS, White and Asian children had poverty rates below
the U.S. average. Other race groups had higher rates, including Black
children (38.2 percent) and children identified with Two or More
Races (22.7 percent). POVERTY FOR HISPANIC CHILDREN WAS 32.3 PERCENT.
. . . .[[my CAPS]]. . . .
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d. The number and percentage of children in poverty increased in 27
states from the 2009 ACS to the 2010 ACS. In no state did the number
or percent of children in poverty decrease.
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In my opinion, the above INDICATED small difference (32.3% - 21.6%) =
10.7% in poverty rates for Hispanic over White children again CASTS
DOUBT ON "HAIM'S" SUGGESTION "H1" and (indirectly) on "Haim's"
suggestion "H2".
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Richard Hake, Emeritus Professor of Physics, Indiana University
Links to Articles: <http://bit.ly/a6M5y0>
Links to SDI Labs: <http://bit.ly/9nGd3M>
Blog: <http://bit.ly/9yGsXh>
Twitter <http://bit.ly/juvd52>
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REFERENCES [All URL's shortened by <http://bit.ly/> and accessed on
24 May 2012.]
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Callaway, H.G. 2012. "Growing Inequalities," online on the OPEN!
Dewey-L archives at <http://bit.ly/MnS43S>. Post of 02 May 2012
15:41:19-0400 to Dewey-L.
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Hake, R.R. 2012. "Re: Growing Inequalities," online on the OPEN!
AERA-L archives at <http://bit.ly/JVmTOi>. Post of 23 May 2012
12:50:17-0700 toAERA-L and Net-Gold. The abstract and link to the
complete post are also being transmitted to several discussion lists
and are on my blog "Hake'sEdStuff" at <http://bit.ly/LEHOrt> with a
provision for comments.
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"Haim". 2012. "Re: Growing Inequalities," on the OPEN! Math-Teach
archives at <http://bit.ly/KSpXrz>. Post of 23 May 23 6:15 PM (the
MathForum fails to specify the time zone).
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Noah, T. 2012. "The Great Divergence: America's Growing Inequality
Crisis and What We Can Do about It." Bloomsbury Press, publisher's
information at <http://bit.ly/Kgex2i>. Amazon.com information at
<http://amzn.to/KLw98C>, note the searchable "Look Inside" feature.
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Smith, J.M. 2012. "The Great Divergence: Economic equality has
slipped to an alarming low in the United States. In 'The Great
Divergence' Timothy Noah (2012) does an excellent job of telling us
how this happened - and why it matters," Christian Science Monitor,
30 April; online at <http://bit.ly/KdKesH>.
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USCB. 2011. "Child Poverty in the United States 2009 and 2010:
Selected Race Groups and Hispanic Origin"; U.S. Census Bureau,
American Community Survey Briefs; ,online as a 1.4 MB pdf at
<http://1.usa.gov/KGCpet>.
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USCB. 2012. "2010 Households and Families: 2010," U.S. Census Bureau,
2010 Census Briefs; online as a 3.5 MB pdf at
<http://1.usa.gov/K0NXM8>.
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