Since I didn't get any replies to my email about Groom Creek (which I know is probably because everyone is out doing fun things on a Saturday! :)) Rick and I are just going to run closer to home. I have a little loop on some 4-wheel drive roads in the national forest that I wanted to show to him, so this looks like a good opportunity. We've both signed up for a ~9-mile trail race in Butte, Montana in June with some friends from Big Sky, so I need to get Rick some practice at running on uneven surfaces. We'll start with rough dirt roads and then move on to singletrack! The race is the Wulfman Continental Divide Trail 14K and from the description it sounds like a lot of fun. It's single-track so there is no mass start - instead runners are released onto the trail one at a time, several seconds apart (I think like 10-15 seconds, but I can't remember). The running order is determined by your estimated finish time / pace plus whatever else race management wants to factor in. I guessed a finish time of around 1:50:00, for a trail pace of 12:40. That might or might not be reasonable, depending on the trail, but it certainly won't put us in the way of any of the "rabbits" in the race. .Terri