[louisianaleps] Re: [LNPS] Re: Parish butterfly species records

From: "Vernon Brou" <vabrou@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "'Royal Tyler'" <whitefringetree@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 10:24:55 -0500

Royal,

     Continue doing what you are doing, but as you have done, report your own
records, not those previously reported by others. that you and others actually
know nothing about, that is the issue.  You always provide excellent images of
these species records, and up until recent years from a location rarely
surveyed in the past. The more recent appearance of easy internet research,
truthful and/or worthless BS, has mushroomed this matter out of all
proportions.  This is akin to the ‘Real Fake News’, and it is completely out of
control.  The concepts of taxonomy and plagiarism are thrown by the wayside in
all of this, by college educated professionals and others, who also should know
better.

     For those ignoring these concepts, be forewarned, your valid information
will be thrown to the wayside by future workers, because no one then will be
able to determine what ‘your personal information is’ or is not, your
information.

     It is not necessary that anyone collect, but it is preferable that you
should be able to produce the actual specimens that you report in permanent
literature, especially those new state records. Photographs will not always
suffice.  Generally in Louisiana, some of the actual butterflies previously
reported in our scientific literature are still available today by both
researchers Lambremont and Ross in the 1950s-60s.  Before that, I know of none.
During the late 60’s and early 70s, Strickland, (resident of Baton Rouge) added
around a half dozen or more new Louisiana butterfly species records, mostly
from Cameron Parish.  But he reported all of them only in a presentation at one
of the Lep. Soc. Meetings in the very early 70s, so there was a great
opportunity wasted to have properly documented these. Strickland’s collection
remained in his bedroom closet for decades mostly untouched over these many
years until his death. I first met Strickland in early 1970.

Vernon

From: Royal Tyler [mailto:whitefringetree@xxxxxxxxx] ;
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 8:36 AM
To: Vernon Antoine Brou, Jr. <vabrou@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [louisianaleps] Re: [LNPS] Re: Parish butterfly species records

Hence, I don't guess there is an official list of any kind that I could help
contribute to. I understand all that you said and that is why I wanted to know.
I need focus, and would like to focus on something more meaningful than just
photos eventually.

I haven't the time or resources to collect at the scale you do, but would
eventually like to contribute actual specimens if I knew which ones were
useful, and how to collect them.

It seems as though the Lep or insect community in general is not well organized
but wish I could be useful in some way. My photography can at least identify
groups which need study in this area if anyone ever wants to.

On Aug 1, 2017 8:21 AM, "Vernon Brou" <vabrou@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:vabrou@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > wrote:

Hi Rosemary, Royal, Craig, etc,. etc.

I have most all, if not all, of the published literature on Louisiana
butterflies and moths going back to the Civil War years.  I have mistakenly
provided such records and information to a certain few individuals decades
back, and those persons turned around, and removed my name, and reported this
information as their own. What is most comical about all of this, is that not
one of those persons verified even one of the species I have here, and placed
this information lists.  Now, I have allowed numerous dozens of persons to view
my actual research collection over the decades.  I have also personally
collected over much of the entire state for its butterflies and its moths, and
other insects, for over 63 years here in Louisiana.  What most of you
apparently are not bothering considering is that a significant percentage of
all of these unverified records on these websites is totally bogus, and some
other records very suspect. These records are all temporary and essentially
useless; can and do appear, and disappear numerous times in a single day.  All
of these sites, 100% of them allow any persons, children, and other
non-taxonomical persons to add such meaningless information as valid,
potentially damaging to our taxonomical literature for all future time.  I have
allowed Craig to access all of my records for Louisiana butterflies, as I have
personally collected butterflies every single day for over 60 years here in
Louisiana.  I have recorded a lot of butterflies, e.g. just during one eight
year period, late 80s-early 90s, I operated 8 fermenting fruit bait traps
365-366/ days of each and every year.  On every one of these years, I
specifically logged more than 40,000 individual butterflies just using these 8
bait traps, just here at my home property.  Consider I have actually operated
bait traps for about 45 years at this point.  This quantity of 40,000/yr does
not include the considerable quantities of butterflies I capture (as bycatch)
in my 7-8 light traps for the past near 49 years in Louisiana, sometimes
capturing over 200 butterflies, in a single light trap, during a single night.

By using unverified sources for these, which none of you personally seen, is
scientific heresy.  By republishing this information elsewhere as valid,
destroys our scientific literature for the future.  I know, because I have
personally seen (in-person) some of these unverified records published in every
one of these stated venues, and they were ramped misidentifications, even by
so-called expert PhDs. You say, so what, small number of errors are expected.
I recall one box of 14 specimens representing 14 different species I reviewed
previously for a well noted PhD.  This person reporting these (a well noted PhD
author of numerous butterfly and moth state publications in journals,
newsletters, books, etc. ).  This person was mad as hell that I disagreed with
him concerning these species determinations, so he packaged them up and sent
them off to the American Museum of Natural History.  The following month, this
person sent me his letter and a copy of the AMNH determinations.  It appears
all 14 were indeed misidentified by this (PhD expert)  So I say, no, not one
error is acceptable, not when you all are 100% personally in control of
preventing this. I don’t claim to be all-knowing, nor an expert in anything;
just stating this example here to exemplify the problem.

What happens when some future authors who are concerned about such drivel being
documented as valid, is that they will simply ignore this nonsensical published
effort outlined here using data from BAMONA, LEPSOC Season Summaries, So.
Lepid. Soc. Zone Reports, Bug Guide, personal data, and data from other
individuals.  Essentially, the only persons who think these sources are
meaningful are wanna-be lepidopterists and persons having a half filled shoe
box of a collection under their bed.  Even more ridiculous are those that do no
collecting, and mistakenly assume that determining most species by using images
is meaningful.  None of these such reports are verified by any of you, if that
was the case you would reconsider these very real meaningless sources.  Ask
yourself, just what are you reporting by adding your name to passing on such
less than dubious scientific records that none of you actually know anything
about.

The ‘Golden Rule’ concerning these matters is that one never, ever report even
a single record that each of you personally has not verified. I’m sure most of
you, if not all will ignore my warning here. Once your name is attached to any
such ‘Fake Records’ you cannot recall those publications. My extensive
entomological library is filled with such misinformation going back a century
and a half.

It is not my purpose to denigrate any of you, as I consider most of you
friends; but only to think about what you are doing.  I do not think that
placing images and determinations on personal websites on the web, (a fleeting
existence), is a bad thing, as these currently easily allow for further
verification and revision of potential errors, and are not published in
permanent scientific literature.

Lastly, consider I helped start several such websites concerning moths,
butterflies, etc., including MPG long ago with hundreds of images of species
not available through anyone or any other source.  Last year, I had all of my
hundreds of images removed from that site, as I don’t want to be associated
with sites which still currently display hundreds of improper species
identifications there

And Rosemary, on your spreadsheet list, I note hundreds of species/parish
records that are missing, which I have actual specimens here in my research
collection. You may ask, why have I not reported a revised listing of the
butterflies of Louisiana.  I proposed doing this with Gayle Strickland decades
back, but there was just too many issues to resolve in doing this accurately.
Though,  I have published upon more than a dozen individual butterfly species
accounts as is well known by many of you.

Best Wishes,

Vernon

Vernon Antoine Brou Jr. & Charlotte D. Brou

Abita Entomological Study Site (The most intensely studied entomological
location in North America)

74320 Jack Loyd Road

Abita Springs, Louisiana 70420 USA

Vernon’s cell #  <tel:(985)%20264-5381> 985-264-5381

Charlotte’s cell #  <tel:(985)%20630-6679> 985-630-6679

Home/Office  <tel:(985)%20892-8732> 985-892-8732

<mailto:vabrou@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> vabrou@xxxxxxxxxxxxx   primary E-mail

<https://independent.academia.edu/VernonAntoineBrouJr>
https://independent.academia.edu/VernonAntoineBrouJr

<http://www.lsuinsects.org/people/vernonbrou/index.html>
http://www.lsuinsects.org/people/vernonbrou/index.html     ;

<https://www.academia.edu/9665262/Images_of_some_of_the_insect_traps_designed_fabricated_and_operated_by>

https://www.academia.edu/9665262/Images_of_some_of_the_insect_traps_designed_fabricated_and_operated_by

<https://www.facebook.com/Eudocima> https://www.facebook.com/Eudocima

<https://www.flickr.com/photos/48007634@N02/with/4405668155/>
https://www.flickr.com/photos/48007634@N02/with/4405668155/

Lepidopterists Society member since 1968

Research Associate, Florida State Collection of Arthropods since 1972

Southern Lepidopterists Society charter member since 1978

Entomological Society of Washington member since 1985

Research Associate, McGuire Center for Lepidoptera and Biodiversity,

     Florida Museum of Natural History since 2010

<https://www.facebook.com/Eudocima/media_set?set=a.107140389404709.7630.100003262452539&type=3>

https://www.facebook.com/Eudocima/media_set?set=a.107140389404709.7630.100003262452539&type=3

<http://www.flickr.com/photos/48007634@N02/>
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48007634@N02/

<http://southernlepsoc.org/> http://southernlepsoc.org/

<http://mothphotographersgroup.msstate.edu/contrib.php?plate=1&init=VB&sort=h>
http://mothphotographersgroup.msstate.edu/contrib.php?plate=1&init=VB&sort=h

<http://biodiversitycollectionsindex.org/search/goto/page/0/index/4/id/34556?search=louisiana+insects>

http://biodiversitycollectionsindex.org/search/goto/page/0/index/4/id/34556?search=louisiana+insects

<http://networkedblogs.com/NpX9C?ref=nf> http://networkedblogs.com/NpX9C?ref=nf

<http://www.silkmoths.bizland.com/acknowlhtm>
http://www.silkmoths.bizland.com/acknowl.htm

<http://www.silkmoths.bizland.com/VernonBrou.htm>
http://www.silkmoths.bizland.com/VernonBrou.htm ;

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcShaf9lfdA>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcShaf9lfdA

<https://www.facebook.com/yearinreview/> https://www.facebook.com/yearinreview/

______________________________________________________________________



From:  <mailto:louisianaleps-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
louisianaleps-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto: ;
<mailto:louisianaleps-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> louisianaleps-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Rosemary Seidler
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2017 8:41 PM
To:  <mailto:louisianaleps@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> louisianaleps@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [louisianaleps] Re: [LNPS] Re: Parish butterfly species records

Craig, Royal, et. al.,

Attached is a spreadsheet of butterflies vs parishes that I started using data
from BAMONA, LEPSOC Season Summaries, BugGuide, personal data, and data from a
few other individuals.   I would occasionally travel to parishes with few
records and send new species for the parish to the LEPSOC Season Summary.

When Craig started his book on Louisiana butterflies  I stopped updating the
spreadsheet since Craig was gathering this same information.  Last time I
updated the spreadsheet  was July, 2008.

Personally, I find it more useful/interesting to see what butterflies are seen
in each parish rather than what parishes  have reported an individual species.

So, Craig,  can you fill in some "X's" and send the list back to us?  I may
also be missing a few species. Or you can send me the data and I will update
the list.

Royal,  I could do the same with moths but is a much more daunting project.

Rosemary Seidler

Shreveport

  _____

From:  <mailto:louisianaleps-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
louisianaleps-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <
<mailto:louisianaleps-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> louisianaleps-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
on behalf of Craig Marks < <mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2017 3:26:47 PM
To:  <mailto:whitefringetree@xxxxxxxxx> whitefringetree@xxxxxxxxx;
<mailto:lnps@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> lnps@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc:  <mailto:louisianaleps@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> louisianaleps@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [louisianaleps] Re: [LNPS] Re: Parish butterfly species records

Royal,

   I know Jeff Trahan has a website with a list of butterflies/skippers for
Caddo. He also has a website for NW LA moths with many pictures. You should
also look at the many articles and other items on the internet by Vernon Brou
as he is the "go to guy" for moths here in LA.

Craig

-----Original Message-----
From: Royal Tyler < <mailto:whitefringetree@xxxxxxxxx>
whitefringetree@xxxxxxxxx>
To: Louisiana Native Plant Society < <mailto:lnps@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
lnps@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: louisianaleps < <mailto:louisianaleps@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
louisianaleps@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Mon, Jul 31, 2017 3:13 pm
Subject: [LNPS] Re: Parish butterfly species records

I am curious if there is an official species list of any kind for all Leps. I
have about 600 for Caddo parish if you include moths, and I know Jeff has a
good many also.

On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 11:24:10 AM UTC-5, Craig Marks wrote:

I thought that some additional prospective might be helpful to generate
interest in increasing our knowledge of what is present in LA and where.

Specifically, only 3 parishes have over 100 species recorded, St. Tammany
(primarily thru the efforts of Vernon Brou), Caddo (primarily thru the efforts
of Jean, Rosemary, Vickie and Jeff) and Natchitoches (thru the efforts of
many), with 110, 106 and 101 reported respectively. Only 2 have over 90
recorded, West Feliciana (primarily thru the efforts of Dr. M. Israel) and
Rapides (again, due to the efforts of several), both with 95 reported. E. Baton
Rouge (88), E. Feliciana (87), Bossier (87), Vernon (85) and Tangipahoa (84)
round at the top 10.

So, even some of the parishes at the top of the list are missing some species
that should be there in the right habitat.

My book will include species specific parish range maps which will identify in
which parishes each species has been recorded. I'd like to supplement those
current maps (if possible). If anyone is interested, send me an e-mail and I
will provide the number for your parish.

Craig

-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Marks < <mailto:cwm...@xxxxxxx> cwm...@xxxxxxx>
To: louisianaleps < <mailto:louisi...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> louisi...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
lnps < <mailto:ln...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> ln...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wed, Jun 28, 2017 8:29 am
Subject: Parish butterfly species records

Not sure if anyone has noticed, but there is an effort underway in Arkansas,
spearheaded by Herschel Raney, to increase the species counts for various
under-reported counties in that State. So, and this time not sure if anyone is
interested, I thought I would post a list of the 10 least reported parishes w/i
our State.

Assumption  11

Franklin  13

Ascension 19

St. Bernard  19

E. Carroll  20

Plaquemine  20

W. Carroll  22

Richland 23

Madison  29

Morehead  31.

By my calculations and research, 154 butterflies and skippers have been
reported as found at least once w/i LA. Of that number, 129 appear to be or to
have been permanent residents of this State. So, the simple math suggests there
are a lot of unreported butterflies in the parishes listed above. If you live
in or near any of those parishes, or if you have plans to visit any of them
this summer, spend a little time looking for butterflies, and send me your
list. At this point, even common butterflies will probably increase these
parish lists.

In that regard, no individual butterfly has been reported in all 64 of LA's
parishes. Cloudless Sulphurs and Little Yellows top the list w/ reports from 62
parishes. Other notables include Pearl Cres in 60, Buckeyes in 58, Tiger and
Pipevine STs in 57 and Carolina Satyrs in 55. So, another effort would be to
try and find these common butterflies in  all 64 parishes since there is no
doubt they are in all of them.

By the way, all of these statistics, and many more, will be included in my
book, now scheduled for release in early 2018.

If anyone has questions, or would like some more details, let me know.

Craig Marks

--
--
To post to this group, send email to  <mailto:lnps@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
lnps@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
<mailto:lnps+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> lnps+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
For more options, visit this group at
<http://groups.google.com/group/lnps?hl=en?hl=en>
http://groups.google.com/group/lnps?hl=en?hl=en
Administrator:  <mailto:beth.erwin1@xxxxxxxxx> beth.erwin1@xxxxxxxxx
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Louisiana Native Plant Society" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to  <mailto:lnps+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
lnps+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
For more options, visit  <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>
https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

References:
- [louisianaleps] Re: [LNPS] Re: Parish butterfly species records
  - From: Vernon Brou

[louisianaleps] Re: [LNPS] Re: Parish butterfly species records

Other related posts: