[lit-ideas] Re: pi.hi.y pi.hi.y
- From: Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 14:49:29 -0500 (EST)
In a message dated 1/15/2013 10:39:21 A.M. UTC-02,
donalmcevoyuk@xxxxxxxxxxx writes in "Re: Gleeg Gleeg Gleeg" after quoting from
>> From what I recall,
>>Gleeg gleeg gleeg
>>is an utterance used by the philosopher Paul Ziff as an alleged
>>counterxample to Grice. >
>Every utterance ever made is an alleged counter-example to Grice. What's
more, the allegation is true.
Tx.
-- For the record, I'm changing the subject and pasting the previous post,
in part:
The philosophical
example (allegedly a counterexample) by Professor Ziff (in the "Analysis"
magazine: "On H. P. Grice's account of meaning", vol. 28) "is slightly
different.
Ziff is quoting from
Whorf, Language, Thought and Reality, p. 114
-- and the language in question is Hopi.
Without recoursing to the International Phonetic Association, Ziff
provides the utterance
"pi.hi.y pi.hi.y"
as per header.
The scenario provided by Ziff is as follows, and includes the descript
"irritable":
On being inducted into the army,
George is compelled to take a test to establish sanity.
George is known to be an irritable academic. The
test he is being given would be appropriate for morons.
One of the questions asked is
"What would you say if you were asked to identify yourself?".
George replied to the officer
asking the question by uttering:
"pi.hi.y pi.hi.y"
Ziff comments:
"Perversely speaking in Hopi, George meant
by the utterance "pi.hi.y pi.hi.y" (and what he said)
was that he didn't know."
----- Ziff wants to contrast this with another utterance which is REALLY
meaningless. But there are complications, as there should.
--
The example is subtle, and indeed perverse, and it may need exploration.
Donal McEvoy:
>Every utterance ever made is an alleged counter-example to Grice. What's
more, the allegation is true.
Well, as I say, this may need elaboration or exploration.
I'm not sure a counterexample can be said to be true (or false) for that
matter.
"Alleged counterexample" may NOT read as "allegedly TRUE counterexample.
---- And so on. Perhaps the allegation is _valid_, more than true. Ziff's
essay has been reprinted. It relates to other alleged counterexamples to
Grice in the same vein, as per by Searle and others.
-----
Etc.
Cheers,
Speranza
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