[lit-ideas] RE: [lit-ideas] The Greek Bädeker

  • From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 17:46:34 -0800



I did wonder that (my) Pausanias had written enough to fill six volumes of 
Loeb, but Cartledge describes him as one much given to self-aggrandizement, and 
I thought it must have been more serious than I realized.


As to remembering the names of the Argonauts, I read those legends at one time, 
but not recently.   In looking at your list I wonder whether these, Nestor, for 
example is the same man who fought against the Trojans.  And what about 
Odysseus Ithakai?   How did those real people get on the mythical Argos?s

And here is the father of Odysseus, Laertesson  Ithaca.  Did father and son 
travel together after the Golden Fleece?   

I don’t remember this very well, if I ever knew it.  I did read the Iliad and 
Odyssey 2 or 3 times each, but not recently.   Some of these names appear in 




From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 1:22 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] The Greek Bädeker 


Pausanias: The Greek Bädeker --- and the Dioscuri


---- Oops, -- and _this_ Pausanias, the one I was meaning, is still less (much 
less) honourable. He is described by C. Osborne, in the Dict. of Art, as the 
"Greek Baedeker". For some reason, Loeb thought it good to have it in his 
Classical Library, so we have -- let me check -- SIX volumes -- of Pausanias. I 
only own I and II -- the second opens with "Laconia", a rather dry Book, which 
mentions the Pausanias that matters that you mention.


It's odd how the Greeks thought that a name like "Pausanias" would be 
recongisable. I was recently checking the list of Argonauts, and it's always, 
"the son of ...", which makes for very heavy reading, plus the town where they 
originated from, which makes more sense. So I suppose the idea of "Telemachus, 
son of Odysseus", was meant as a pure patronymic.

I understand that the system, as it is, is preserved in ICELAND -- (only), 
where say, if Patricia is the daughter of Julian, she would be called Patricia 
Juliandaughter. If Patrick is the son of Julian, he would be Patrick Julianson. 
Odd, but nice.


I append below the list of Argonauts. See if you recognise one (or two). I 
recognise the whole lot! I will have to double check it with the main Loeb 
sources for that: one in Greek (APOLLONIUS, Argonautica) and one in Latin, 


From Sparta we have at least two -- who John Milton, in Paradise Lost, or 
Ageop. calls "The Spartan Twins", Castor and Pollux. Interesting pair, if you 
axes me. 







Thanks to L. K. Helm for his post on "Pausanias. 

"[JLS] mention[s]  Pausanias.  He is an interesting fellow.  Although not built 
along the heroic lines of Leonidas, he apparently thought he was, and that got 
him into trouble.  Being a great general did not garner him the Spartan esteem 
he thought he deserved.  The Spartans valued a great hero who proved himself on 
the field of battle above that of a great general who led his armies to success 
in a war. ...The actual crime that caused him to “be walled up in the temple of 
Athena of the Brazen house and starved to death” was intriguing with the 
Helots, the Spartan slaves.  Later, after Pausanias’ death, and the Spartans 
were running low on warrior-citizens, they did grant Helots “a conditional form 
of freedom in return for military service ... Only later, after recourse to the 
Delphic Oracle, was Pausanias posthumously rehabilitated and given an 
unprecedented token of honour in the form of two bronze commemorative statues.  
Much later still his name was linked with that of Leonidas as recipient of 
annual games held in their joint honour.”


Acastus Iolkos 


Admetus Thessalia) 

Aethalides Phthia 

Alastor Pylos 

Amphiaraus Argos 


Amphetus Lacedaemon 

Amphion Pellene 

Amphistratus Lacedaemonia

Amyrus Thessalia 

Angaeus Tegea 

Angaeus Pleuron 

Angaeus Samos 

Areius Argos 

Argus Argos 

Argus Thessalia 

Argus Thespiae 

Armenos Rhode 

Armenos Thessalia 

Ascalaphus  Orchomenus 

Asclepios Thessalia 

Asterius Thessalia 

Asterius Pellene  

Augeias Elis 

Autolycus Trekke 


Bellerophon Corinthos 

Butes, Attica 


Caeneus, Thessaly 

Canthus Euboea 

Castor Sparta, 

Cepheus Tegea 

Cercas Lacedaemon 

Cytissorus Thessaly 

Dascylus Heracleia 

Demoleon Trekke 

Echion Thessaly 

Erginus Orchomenus 

Erginus Miletus 


Eumedon  Phlious 

Euphemus Thespiae 

Euryalus Argos 


Eurydamas Locris 

Eurydamas Thessalia

Glaucus Thespeae 

Heracles Thebai 

Hylas Dryopia 

Ialmenus Orchomenus 

Idas Argus 

Idmon Argos 

Iolaus Thebai 

Iphecles Thebai

Ipheclus Pleuron 

Iphes Argos 

Iphetus  Oehalia 

Iphetus Phocis 


Laertesson  Ithaca 

Laodocus Argos 

Leetusson Thespiae 

Lynceus Messene 

Melas Thessaly 

Meleager Calydon 

Menoetius Phthia 

Mopsus Thessaly 

Nauplius Argos 

Neleus Pylos 

Nestor Pylos 

Odysseus Ithakai

Oedipus Thebai 

Oileus Locris 

Orpheos Thrakia 


Pandion Thrace 

Peirithos Thessaly 

Peleus Thessaly 

Peneleus Thespiae 

Periclunenos Pylos 

Perseus Argos

Phalerus Attica 


Philoctetes Thessalia 

Phlyas Argos 

Phrontis Thessalia 

Plexippus Thrace 

Plogius. Sinope 

Poeas Thessalia 

Polydeuces  Sparta  

Polyphemos Thessaly 

Perissotros Prothumos  


Talaos Argos 

Telamon Salamis 

Theseos Athenae 

Tiphus Thespiae 

Tudeus Kalydon

Zetes Zetes 





Pausanias (Greek: Παυσανίας) was a Greek traveller and geographer of the 2nd 
century A.D., who lived in the times of Hadrian, Antoninus Pius and Marcus ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pausanias_(geographer) - 33k -  
 Cached -  
 Similar pages


Pausanias (Athenian), lover of the poet Agathon and a character in Plato's 
Symposium. ... Pausanias of Sparta, King of Sparta from 409 BC to 395 BC. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pausanias - 16k -  
 Cached -  
 Similar pages


Pausanias (†470): Spartan prince from the Agiad dynasty, commander of the Greek 
troops that defeated the Persians at Plataea (479). ...
www.livius.org/pan-paz/pausanias/pausanias.html - 12k -  
 Cached -  
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