[lit-ideas] RE: [lit-ideas] The Greek Bädeker
- From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 17:46:34 -0800
JL,
I did wonder that (my) Pausanias had written enough to fill six volumes of
Loeb, but Cartledge describes him as one much given to self-aggrandizement, and
I thought it must have been more serious than I realized.
As to remembering the names of the Argonauts, I read those legends at one time,
but not recently. In looking at your list I wonder whether these, Nestor, for
example is the same man who fought against the Trojans. And what about
Odysseus Ithakai? How did those real people get on the mythical Argos?s
And here is the father of Odysseus, Laertesson Ithaca. Did father and son
travel together after the Golden Fleece?
I don’t remember this very well, if I ever knew it. I did read the Iliad and
Odyssey 2 or 3 times each, but not recently. Some of these names appear in
Homer.
Lawrence
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 1:22 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] The Greek Bädeker
Pausanias: The Greek Bädeker --- and the Dioscuri
---- Oops, -- and _this_ Pausanias, the one I was meaning, is still less (much
less) honourable. He is described by C. Osborne, in the Dict. of Art, as the
"Greek Baedeker". For some reason, Loeb thought it good to have it in his
Classical Library, so we have -- let me check -- SIX volumes -- of Pausanias. I
only own I and II -- the second opens with "Laconia", a rather dry Book, which
mentions the Pausanias that matters that you mention.
It's odd how the Greeks thought that a name like "Pausanias" would be
recongisable. I was recently checking the list of Argonauts, and it's always,
"the son of ...", which makes for very heavy reading, plus the town where they
originated from, which makes more sense. So I suppose the idea of "Telemachus,
son of Odysseus", was meant as a pure patronymic.
I understand that the system, as it is, is preserved in ICELAND -- (only),
where say, if Patricia is the daughter of Julian, she would be called Patricia
Juliandaughter. If Patrick is the son of Julian, he would be Patrick Julianson.
Odd, but nice.
I append below the list of Argonauts. See if you recognise one (or two). I
recognise the whole lot! I will have to double check it with the main Loeb
sources for that: one in Greek (APOLLONIUS, Argonautica) and one in Latin,
Valerius.
From Sparta we have at least two -- who John Milton, in Paradise Lost, or
Ageop. calls "The Spartan Twins", Castor and Pollux. Interesting pair, if you
axes me.
Cheers,
JL
Thanks to L. K. Helm for his post on "Pausanias.
"[JLS] mention[s] Pausanias. He is an interesting fellow. Although not built
along the heroic lines of Leonidas, he apparently thought he was, and that got
him into trouble. Being a great general did not garner him the Spartan esteem
he thought he deserved. The Spartans valued a great hero who proved himself on
the field of battle above that of a great general who led his armies to success
in a war. ...The actual crime that caused him to “be walled up in the temple of
Athena of the Brazen house and starved to death” was intriguing with the
Helots, the Spartan slaves. Later, after Pausanias’ death, and the Spartans
were running low on warrior-citizens, they did grant Helots “a conditional form
of freedom in return for military service ... Only later, after recourse to the
Delphic Oracle, was Pausanias posthumously rehabilitated and given an
unprecedented token of honour in the form of two bronze commemorative statues.
Much later still his name was linked with that of Leonidas as recipient of
annual games held in their joint honour.”
Acastus Iolkos
Actor
Admetus Thessalia)
Aethalides Phthia
Alastor Pylos
Amphiaraus Argos
AmphidamasTegea
Amphetus Lacedaemon
Amphion Pellene
Amphistratus Lacedaemonia
Amyrus Thessalia
Angaeus Tegea
Angaeus Pleuron
Angaeus Samos
Areius Argos
Argus Argos
Argus Thessalia
Argus Thespiae
Armenos Rhode
Armenos Thessalia
Ascalaphus Orchomenus
Asclepios Thessalia
Asterius Thessalia
Asterius Pellene
Augeias Elis
Autolycus Trekke
Azorus,
Bellerophon Corinthos
Butes, Attica
Calais
Caeneus, Thessaly
Canthus Euboea
Castor Sparta,
Cepheus Tegea
Cercas Lacedaemon
Cytissorus Thessaly
Dascylus Heracleia
Demoleon Trekke
Echion Thessaly
Erginus Orchomenus
Erginus Miletus
Erytus
Eumedon Phlious
Euphemus Thespiae
Euryalus Argos
Eurybotes
Eurydamas Locris
Eurydamas Thessalia
Glaucus Thespeae
Heracles Thebai
Hylas Dryopia
Ialmenus Orchomenus
Idas Argus
Idmon Argos
Iolaus Thebai
Iphecles Thebai
Ipheclus Pleuron
Iphes Argos
Iphetus Oehalia
Iphetus Phocis
JasonThessaly
Laertesson Ithaca
Laodocus Argos
Leetusson Thespiae
Lynceus Messene
Melas Thessaly
Meleager Calydon
Menoetius Phthia
Mopsus Thessaly
Nauplius Argos
Neleus Pylos
Nestor Pylos
Odysseus Ithakai
Oedipus Thebai
Oileus Locris
Orpheos Thrakia
Palaemon
Pandion Thrace
Peirithos Thessaly
Peleus Thessaly
Peneleus Thespiae
Periclunenos Pylos
Perseus Argos
Phalerus Attica
Phanus
Philoctetes Thessalia
Phlyas Argos
Phrontis Thessalia
Plexippus Thrace
Plogius. Sinope
Poeas Thessalia
Polydeuces Sparta
Polyphemos Thessaly
Perissotros Prothumos
Staphulos
Talaos Argos
Telamon Salamis
Theseos Athenae
Tiphus Thespiae
Tudeus Kalydon
Zetes Zetes
--------
Pausanias (Greek: Παυσανίας) was a Greek traveller and geographer of the 2nd
century A.D., who lived in the times of Hadrian, Antoninus Pius and Marcus ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pausanias_(geographer) - 33k -
<http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:VQn8EksgJwoJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pausanias_(geographer)+Pausanias&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&ie=UTF-8>
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<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=related:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pausanias_(geographer)>
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pausanias - 16k -
<http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:AuA0HSHR2RkJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pausanias+Pausanias&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&ie=UTF-8>
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www.livius.org/pan-paz/pausanias/pausanias.html - 12k -
<http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:4n425hC6o_sJ:www.livius.org/pan-paz/pausanias/pausanias.html+Pausanias&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us&ie=UTF-8>
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