Whether graphic arts express or not, one thing they do not express is a
negation, hence no matter what you show of Mombasa you do not show that it is
not the capital of the state of new York, which it isn’t, since it’s Albany. I
aldid it now and the apinting of Mombasa does not. I fail to see what is the
worry here
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Omar Kusturica
Sent: 08 April 2015 18:45
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: escher
Hm... I don't know enough about what goes on in these discussions to pass
judgment. Yes, art has ways to express ideas... On the other and, I wonder if
it must be its primary concern. After all, we already have politicians,
pundits, prophets, lawyers, philosophers, advertisers, all of whom are in the
business of expressing ideas of some sort or other. And it is not clear why the
artists' ideas should be taken more seriously than anyone else's. Even if
ideas are being expressed, I would think that the manner of expression is what
matters more, here. But that's just my opinion.
Oh, it just occurred to me, let's paint the proposition that Shanghai is not
the capital of China. It looks like it might well be. (If anything it probably
looks more metropolitan than Beijing.)
O.K.
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 6:06 PM, David Ritchie
<profdritchie@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:profdritchie@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
We can agree that one needs to understand a language to know what might be
expressed, that abstract expressionism, for example, is opaque to many, and
that someone who has never arrived in a capital might have trouble
distinguishing Mombasa from somewhere else. But surely these are arguments
about fluency or comprehension rather than capability? In a few weeks I'll be
sitting in thesis orals in the art college where I work. Students will try to
explain what "idea" their work aims to explore. My colleagues' notion of an
"idea" and a philosopher's may differ, but if it's impossible that an assembly
of this and that or a performance or an ever-looping tape can express an idea,
then the students are being asked to undertake what cannot be done, which
doesn't reflect well on us.
David
On Apr 8, 2015, at 8:50 AM, Omar Kusturica wrote:
Eh, it's not clear to me what 'abstraction' is. Arabesque may be abstract in------------------------------------------------------------------
the sense that it is not representational, but that is probably not what is
meant. I wouldn't take it for granted that paintings of abstract concepts
exist, as opposed to paintings that provide concrete examples of these
concepts. For example, Munch's "Melancholy" is a painting of a melancholic
face, not really a painting of melancholy. At the very least, it is something
that can be assumed without discussion.
About a painting that will tell me by way of hints that Paris is the capital
of France, I strongly suspect that these 'hints' will be readable only by one
who knows it already, and quite a few other facts about Paris and France
besides.
Perhaps we can take Mombasa instead and see how you lead me toward it by
hints that must surely be understandable to us both.
O.K.
