Larry Kramer, on the old list, once used a concise phrase - a Jewish or Yiddish expression afair - that means (roughly) 'better to tell something not itself exactly or completely true but which nevertheless conveys the truth - rather than waste everybody's time trying to put the truth exactly or completely'. Such a phrase would come in handy manys a time and I wonder if anyone knows one? As an aside my mother has a series of phrases she uses that have spread like a meme to those introduced to them: one being 'They don't/didn't lick it up off the grass'. Meaning:- they learnt that behaviour or copied that from someone else, or were influenced to do it by someone else - where the behaviour is invariably bad, like stealing or lying, or some form of selfishness. Donal Showing signs of coming from a largely agricultural society That throws the net of blame wider than the individual ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html