[See JL's note below] JL, I read a book about the Gurkhas ages ago, before the Flaklands war, and in it the Gurkhas were presented in a favorable light. When the British were off fighting everyone and conquering the world so that the sun would never set on it, they encountered many responsive ways of fighting. They didn't like the Afghanis at all because they had a habit of cutting of the testicles of dead enemies and stuffing them in their mouths. But the Gurkhas, according to this historian I read, were just like the British. They were 'good sports" about war. They were happy to declare time outs for tea or whatever the Gurkhas drank and they honored longer time outs so the dead could be removed from the field. Thus, the British recruiting Sergeants, who were always on the lookout for good troops inasmuch as the British didn't have enough native Britishers to do the work of empire, offered the Gurkhas, after their little battle was over, a deal: Good wages, equipment, plenty of leave time to visit the folks at home and all they had to do was fight for the British wherever the British said. It worked out well for both sides. Wikipedia: "the Gurkhas were designated by British officials as a "Martial Race <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_Race> ". "Martial Race" was a designation created by officials of British India <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_India> to describe "races" (peoples) that were thought to be naturally warlike and aggressive <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggressive> in battle <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle> , and to possess qualities like courage <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courage> , loyalty <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyalty> , self sufficiency <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_sufficiency> , physical strength <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_strength> , resilience <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resilience> , orderliness <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order> , hard working, fighting tenacity <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tenacity&action=edit> and military strategy <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_strategy> . The British recruited heavily from these Martial Races for service in the colonial army <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_army> .[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorkha> " The British originally created the term "Martial Races" to describe the Scottish Highlanders. They theorized that certain "races" were more warlike than others. I don't know which other peoples are on their list besides the Scots and the Gurkhas. My earlier comments had to do with nations. That is, nations don't go to war for fun. There are individuals who think fighting is fun. I was stationed with one in Korea who was one/quarter Blackfoot and every time he got a snoot full he wanted to fight. Unfortunately he wasn't very good at it. I rescued him from countless beatings and he never objected to that. So while he wanted to get into these fights, he didn't want to get beaten to a bloody pulp and friends observed that Wild Bill Salois didn't start any fights when I wasn't around. But more seriously, nations, and before them tribes have known that they have a much better chance of winning an encounter with an enemy if their young men know how to fight well (whether or not they possessed all the qualities the British desired from a Martial Race). How do you get your young men trained and prepared. Early on it was discovered that games were good preparation. All of the early "games" were readily translatable into military skills and young men who were good at one or more of these "games" were also likely to be good at the military equivalent. I have never heard the counter suggestion that these games were merely for sport. If you could throw a javelin better than anyone else and your hoplite phalanx needed someone to throw a spear at an opposing hoplite leader who was exposing himself rather foolishly, who is your leader going to choose to throw that spear? Why you, of course. Games and training have become so ingrained and sublimated over the years that the ordinary sports fan would be astounded at the ancient connection to war. Surely not, he would say. But what does an American Football game, for example, remind you of so much as two Greek phalanxes contending with each other. They have no spears or swords but they have heavy modern armor and helmets and they thrust against each other in the manner of the ancient Greek hoplites. One might observe, truly, that we have no modern use for hoplites, but in theory if one is proficient and courageous in American football, those skills would lend themselves to other forms of combat. As to war gaming, consider first the simulator. When I was in aerospace and we sold a bunch of airplanes to someone, we usually sold them a simulator as well. A transport plane, or any modern plane for that matter, is very expensive. If you represent your nation and have purchased these planes, you don't want your pilots to learn how to fly them by trial and error. So you buy a simulator and let your pilots practice in that. You can see how well they do and not let them get into an actual plane until they have demonstrated that they can do well in this "toy cockpit." Something even more expensive than an airplane is an army. You do not want your generals learning how to fight wars "on the job." So in America and presumably elsewhere, future military leaders are sent to "war college" and learn among other things "war gaming." Whether they enjoy this training is unknown to me, but I would imagine that those who become very good at it would enjoy it. Some of the best stay on and teach, I understand. I gather there are at least two levels of war-gaming (but probably many levels in between the two I mention). The lower level would be for your young lieutenants to learn the basics about leading their platoons into battle. A higher level would be for generals to war-game major wars. What did Wittgenstein intend with his word games. Were they strictly for fun or were they primarily educational tools? Lawrence Helm San Jacinto From: jlsperanza@xxxxxxx [mailto:jlsperanza@xxxxxxx] Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 6:39 AM To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Cc: lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx; teemu17@xxxxxxxxx Subject: The Melleiren and the Iran: A Spartan Dialogue Dear L. K. and List, Please read the below when you have the time. Apparently my posts to lit-ideas are taking their time to be distributed. So if you find any below of interest to comment, feel free to do so onlist. I thought the chronology of a Spartan male is cute. I'm reading Finley and he is so rude. He says, Since 600 BC, there's no native Spartan worth mentioning. After that date, they felt they had nothing to say (to foreigners). On the other hand I was doing some research on the Hercules Club. I belong to the Poseidon Club in Buenos Aires, which has an excellent swimming pool and where you can feel the riverside breeze. I thought the Hercules Club would be similar. However, the entry for the OED refers to 'club' as in Golf club, not as in Dr. Johnson 'clubbable clubs'. Anyway. GURKHAS, they wanna have fun. Our military historian, L. K. Helm, and royal marine (royal in the sense of excellent) browses his swimming- or rather boot-camp library (he leads an elitist documentation centre for the study of This and That -- Bellic: "I've been reading about nations going to war. So far I haven't found a single one which wanted to go to war because it seemed fun. The Spartan's were warlike in ability but they were very slow to go to war. They backed out of several crucial battles for religious reasons. When they did fight, they fought well, but they never started a war because they thought it was going to be fun." One such nation may be the Gurkhas. Many well-born Argentines, including quite a few Anglo-Argentines, were mercilessly killed by these barbarian human midgets. I cannot recall the dialect, but what they said was along the lines: GURKHA 1: Bley baa Scotch and rum go go go uphill reysar argie bloody GURKHA 2: HA! Teach lesson ya ya uphill go kill bley Buddah GURKHA 1: Ready! Wanna some poppers? GURKHA 2: Nay, thanks. Budha Alah and Jesus Christ, Fucklands Fuckers Argies. ---- so they went up the hill. Reports from Argentine soldiers -- terrified as they were -- indicate that they were (the Gurkhas) were laughing all the way, as if they thought it was fun. (And perhaps it was for them). Also, they were killing each other on the way up the hill, and strongly under the influence of whatever led them to find war a cheerful adventure not to be had in the land where they belong (not the Fucklands, precisely). Anyway, but back to the Spartans. We have nowadays many so-called WAR-GAMES. How can Helm explain those unless it's the silly ludic element that mothers impose on those 'useless things' (as Spartans called children before war-age). There are so many of them. "Playing soldiers" is common among boys (or 'kids' as Americans animalize them). Knowing kids, they may well kill each other if were not for some 'rules' that adults impose on the games. So, I suppose the same would apply to Spartans. I was doing some research on age-groups. I came to the following conclusion SPARTA pais meleikistes iran aner 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 pais ephebos aner ATHENS So there was no correlation between their categorisation of 'rite-of-passage' male things. In any case, suppose we have a meleikistes talking to an iran: MELE. Wanna have some fun? IRAN. What d'you mean? MELE Some drilling. It's dry and nice, and feel like running naked on the fields. IRAN. Sounds good to me. Call your 'brothers'. MELE Why? IRAN If we are going to drill, we might just as well do it in groups -- elite groups -- and save time in case of war. MELE. Oh, you and your war. Our neighbours (perioikoides) are dum, and so are the halots. Can't you just gymnastics without THINKING about war? IRAN. You don't know. You are hardly an 'aner'. Indeed, you are not. You're not even an iran. You should bless Sparta that you are not a pais anymore! MELE. Still. I like to exercise (_ascesis_) for the fun of it. See how I move my right foot to the left, and now my left foot to the right. IRAN. Why don't you move your left foot to your arse. Your flexible enough! MELE. Who's them out there beyond the rocks? IRAN I told you! Enemies. Argi-bloody-ves! MELE. Let's call the andres! IRAN. Indeed. Let's call the Andres. Leonidas is in Sardinia though. He is settling a Spartan colony there. MELE. By the sperm of Herackles! What are we going to do? IRAN. Keep playing your silly games. The Argives may take you for a pais and save your life. As for me... MELE. As for you -- what? You're not thinking of leaving are you? IRAN. No, but I do have a train to catch. Etc. J. L. Speranza Bordighera -- Land of the Ligure From Murray, p. 8o. "Attic Greek would have four sharp divisions: pais, ephebos, aner, geron. In Sparta the divisions are still sharper and more numerous centring in the great initiation ceremonies of the Iranes, or full-grown youths. These initiation ceremonies are called Teletai, 'completions': they mark the great 'rite of transition' from the immature, charming, but useless thing which we call a boy to the teleios aner, the full member of the tribe as fighter. See Woodward B. S. A. xiv, 83. Nikagoras won four (successive?) victories as mikkikhixomenos, porpais, pais and melleiren, i.e. from his tenth to fifteenth year.He would then at 14 or 15 become an iran. Plut Lyc. 17 gives the age of an iran as 20. This agrees with the age of an ephebos at Athens as "15-20", "14-21", "about 16"; see authorities in Stephanus, s.v. ephebos. Such variations in the date of 'puberty ceremonies are common'. The whole subject of Greek initiation ceremonies calls pressingly for more investigation. For one instance, it is clear that a great number of rites which were formerly explained as remnants of human sacrifice are simply ceremonies of initiation (see Rise of the Greek Epic, Appendix on Hymn. Dem, and W. R. Halliday, C. R. xxv, 8. Nillson's valualbe article has appared since the above was written, Grundlage des spartanischen leben, in Klio xii 1902.