[lit-ideas] Re: Town & Country
- From: "Walter C. Okshevsky" <wokshevs@xxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 20:32:35 -0230
Quite right, JL. The "deontic" conception of morality differs significantly from
the "aretaic." I'm not clear on the sources of these terms, perhaps you can
enlighten us?
Chalrles Larmore, in his classic "The right and the good" refers to Sidgewicks'
formulation of the difference: on the deontic view, the right (the moral law
understood as universally valid obligations for any rational agent) takes
priority over the good (i.e., substantive cultural and/or religious conceptions
of the good/authentic life w attendant virtues), while on the aretaic view, any
formulation of moral law presupposes some conception of the good life. In this
debate, questions of motivation and character are typically confused with
questions of justification, as if answewrs to the former were eo ipso answers
to the latter. See Pistorius's objections to Kant and Kant's ripostes in the
2nd Critique.
Cheers, Walter
Quoting Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx:
> In a message dated 6/20/2009 5:28:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> wokshevs@xxxxxx writes:
> Aristotelian conception of morality that privileges the norms and
> principles of
> one's own polis and habitus on criteria of "the good life," "the authentic
> life," "the virtuous life." And this has definite value to be sure.
> -----
>
> It strikes me that there are two moralities:
>
> -- the morality of the 'city slickers'
>
> -- the morality of the mouse of the 'country' (not town).
>
> So Kant and Aristotle (etc.) are wrong.
>
> Obama said, "It is raining, and I endorse that both
> as a citizen of the United States of America
> and as a citizen of the World.
>
> People objected, "I'm not a citizen of the world".
>
> "Kosmopolites" was a joke invented by the Greek, but so was 'polites'.
>
> I have been to LACONIA, in Peloponnese. SPARTA is the "Capital" -- and
> "Spartans" they are -- the polis. But what was "around" the polis? The
> country, not the town.
>
> The had to _extend_ the concept of 'polis' to COVER, unnaturally, the
> 'country' around them. But surely the economical infra-structure, to echo
> Marx
> is:
>
> COUNTRY ---> SUPPORTS TOWN
>
> and not vice versa.
>
> Think of New York City and New York State. (NY SUPPORTS NYC -- and not
> vice versa).
>
> For any city (town) worth her name, there is a country surrounding it.
>
> Perhaps that's the origin of 'countryman', or 'fellow countryman'.
>
> In Italian (and Adriano Palma, though not a native speaker) will agree
> with me,
>
> there's "paese"
>
> --- The national anthem of Argentina was written first in ITALIAN, by
> Luigi Illica
>
> "e la bandiera del paese mio"
>
> "it's the flag of my country"
>
> The equivalent of Italian 'paese' is Spanish 'pais', and that is used
> exactly as 'country'.
>
> But in Italian remains the original sense of 'old sod' or something like
> that.
>
> Or cfr. England -->
>
>
> UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN & NORTHERN IRELAND
> (country)
> England (sub-country? no! Country)
> S. Ward's original 'country' ('paese' in Italian)
> Bedfordshire.
>
> Some 'counties' in England still bear the origin as original kingdoms:
>
> Sussex -- kingdom of the Southern Saxons,
>
> etc.
>
> ----
>
> So one can say that one's loyalty is -- for one's town ('polites', cives)
> or one's country (paese). And that _is_ confusing, in cases where for
> example, the capital of one's country (London, Buenos Aires) is not really
> in a
> _real_ county! (But I survive! -- do you?)
>
> Cheers,
>
> JL Speranza
> Buenos Aires, Argentina
>
>
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