In a message dated 3/2/2012 5:27:57 A.M. UTC-02, donalmcevoyuk@xxxxxxxxxxx writes: "appeal to students of language: dogmas that language is 'fundamental', or 'primary' or that language is 'central' or the 'royal road' to understanding - so that, for example, the view that thought is 'language-dependent' is liable to be accepted by such people on the nod and without much thought (language-dependent or not). That students and theorists of language should hold to views that suggest reality is somehow linguistic, or even that (almost) everything we know or everything that is the case is somehow linguistic, bears comparison with prevalent dogmas ...It may be speculated that the 'linguistic turn' in so-called analytical philosophy may not have been so sharp and readily made had philosophers been typically drawn from students of mathematics and physics, rather than 'Greats'/'Classics' (to which, for example, philosophy was long appended at Oxford) which centres intellectually on the close linguistic analysis of texts for their variant meanings. Almost certainly the putting on a pedestal of 'Classics' led to the debacle of Oxford at first putting its people with a First in Greats [regarded then as its greatest minds] on the task of breaking the Nazi communication codes ..." "...is called "Greats," and its final series of examinations is the "great go"." ---- Grice indeed underwent the great go. --- Grice wrote on this in his "Life and Opinions of Paul Grice" (or "Prejudices and Predilections, which become the life and opinions of Paul Grice", by Paul Grice: "It is possible that some of the animosity directed against so-called 'ordinary language philosophy' [from Popper, &c -- Speranza] may have come from people who saw this 'movement' as a sinister attempt on the part of a decaying intellectual establishment whose home lay within the ancient walls of Oxford and Cambridge (walls of stone, not of red brick) and whose upbringing was founded on a classical education, to preserve control of philosophy by gearing philosophical practice to the deployment of a proficiency specially accessible to the establishment, namely a highly developed sensitivity to the richness of linguistic usage." (PGRICE, p. 51). And so on. Cheers, Speranza ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html