---- Original Message ----- From: To: aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: 7/31/2005 6:09:21 PM Subject: Re: [THEORIA] Illusions <<The bottom line is, there's a horrific problem in the Middle East, the WTC is gone, we live under the threat and expense of terrorism, all because some guy had this bright idea that this undefined thing called Jewish identity shouldn't be lost? >> Wait a minute. You're telling me you think the attacks on the Trade Towers were because the Jews want to keep their State of Israel? Just trying to clarify..... A.A. I always tuned out the Middle East conflict except to have this vague idea that Jews and Arabs were one ethnic group. I also had this vague ideat that Israel was created in response to the Holocaust. In the back of my mind I knew that Israel was created by throwing the Palestinians out of their homes and usurping their land. I simply didn't know enough about it to care more than that, leading me to buy into the myth that Israel was a keeper of democracy in the Middle East. After reading that historical summary, it's clear that Israel was planned long before the Holocaust, it is anything but a democracy, and its very existence was brought about at gunpoint. If Gentiles acted like barbarians toward Jews, Jews acted just as barbarically toward Palestinians. Israel clearly has no legal right to exist where it has located itself. If someone moved into your house and threw you out on the street, you'd be none too happy about it. Yet the Palestinians have had to endure exactly this for decades. Not to mention that Shamir was himself a terrorist. Here is a country founded on usurpation and terrorism complaining about terrorism. Barbarism comes full cycle. Complicating this of course are the rabid Islamists who would force their religion on everyone, also at gunpoint, and Israel's unclean hands gives them a rallying point. The hatred that losing one's home has engendered has taken on a life of its own. You asked me all those moral questions in that other post. I now ask you if you were a Palestinian, living in a tent for decades because your home was stolen, and you learned that the WTC, a supporter of your home taker, was destroyed by a group that opposed your home takers, how would you feel? I think a solution to this conflict is to relocate everyone in the State of Montana and give it to the Israelis. Seriously, and please tell me why this is ludicrous while forcing Palestinians out of their homes is defendable? Why such selective moral interest? Personally, I am an atheist. I see all this religious/ethnic crap as hardly worth defending in the first place, let alone dying for, let alone having my country terrorized for. I now definitely see two sides to this issue, as well as the price this country is paying for seeing only one side. Andy Amago Julie Krueger mystified ========Original Message======== Subj:[THEORIA] Illusions Date:7/27/05 8:17:29 A.M. Central Daylight Time From:aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To:THEORIA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent on: Something's been bothering me. Up until now, I assumed, probably like most people, that Israel was created after the Holocaust as a refuge for Jews. After reading that history by Jodey Bateman, I understand that Israel was planned long before the Holocaust as a place where Jewish identity (whatever that is) could be preserved. In its early stages in fact, Israel had a hard time maintaining a population of Jews. The bottom line is, there's a horrific problem in the Middle East, the WTC is gone, we live under the threat and expense of terrorism, all because some guy had this bright idea that this undefined thing called Jewish identity shouldn't be lost? There is something very wrong with this picture. I'll bet that most Jews have no idea that this is the case either. I'm not saying that Jews are to blame for anything, least of all for their persecution over the centuries (which as an atheist I never understood, ! but that's a different story). I'm saying that this plac e called Israel may not be what it's cracked up to be. Somebody help me out here? Andy Amago