Cartledge, op. cit., p 153-4 "In either 458 or 457, Sparta led a Peloponnesian League army across the Isthmus of Corinth into central Greece . . . although the Spartans did defeat the Athenians and their allies at Tanagra, it was too close a victory for them to be able to exploit it politically, and they were relieved enough to be allowed to return unmolested to their Peloponnesian home. "This was the moment, I believe, when the Spartans decided, no doubt with considerable misgivings, to make a major change in their army organization. The earthquake had caused severe loss of Spartan life. Two Perioecic towns in Messenia had joined the Helot revolt. The Battle of Tanagra had been too close for comfort. These three facts, I suggest, prompted the Spartans to take the step of incorporating Perioecic hoplites in the regular Spartan regiments, in order both to ensure Perioecic loyalty and,. More important still, to boost Sparta's flagging citizen numbers. This was not quite like incorporating Nepalese gurkhas into a regular regiment of the British army under the Raj, but it was still a pretty major breach of the Greek principle of the citizen militia army. For although the Perioeci could be called 'Lacedaemonians', just like the Spartans, they were not citizens on equal terms with the Spartans since they had not gone through the socializing discipline of the Agoge or been elected to a dining group. . . ." I once read a history of the Gurkhas. At the time the main source of income in those Nepalese villages was the money sent home by the Gurkhas. I can understand why JL isn't fond of the Gurkhas, but the British are, or at least were (I don't know about now), and the Gurkhas loved to fight. It was something like a marriage made in heaven, or so the author of that history I read implied. Being a Marine I have been interested in elite fighting forces - what makes them tick, how effective they are, their training, morale, etc. The Gurkhas were throughout most of their history (I say "most" because I am not familiar with their recent history) were such a force, as was the French Foreign Legion, and the smaller units such as the SAS, the Navy Seals, etc. But the idea of using mercenaries as a matter of policy is interesting, and one is tempted to relate such a practice to an imperial or national decline. The Romans employed mercenaries during the waning years of their empire. But I don't see the use of the Gurkhas by the British in that category. The British intended to use native forces to govern India and the Gurkhas were looking for work. The Gurkhas though have continued fighting for the British and distinguished themselves or disgraced themselves, depending upon who you listen to, as recently as the Falklands War. Does the continued use of the Gurkhas represent a British decline of some sort? I don't think so. Could the U.S. ever decide to hire mercenaries. I'm aware that some people call the Blackwater types mercenaries, and maybe in a sense they are, but their numbers are small and they are used for security much as their equivalent is in the United States - to protect VIPs and celebrities. I am referring to utilizing a force like the Gurkhas. I can't envision the steps necessary to do that. On the other hand, we have an ongoing policy of accepting our Perioecics into our military forces. If you are from some other country and want citizenship, then join our military and we will give it to you. Our military has since WWII been an important step by which 2nd class citizens can advance to 1st class status. I have seen no evidence that this practice has weakened our military forces in any way, quite the contrary, but the peculiar training and fighting principles of the Spartans were not readily transferred; so this practice of accepting Perioecics into their army did represent a decline - it at least meant that they had taken a step down from the military competence evinced by Leonidas' 300. Lawrence