JLS: Only in the context of a need for a justification, scientific or other, does the logic of verification (or falsification if you mustn't?) make Griceian sense. Surely, I am not very griceful in my approach to this issue, dropping my kuhn-skin cap and overheating the popper. However, I think the basis of the debate hinges on the issue of EXPLANATION, which is a vexed notion. Let me...err...explain. Aristotle's "reasoned fact" may have been good enough for him. Hempel's covering law model does not work since it allows effects to explain causes. Causality models do not work in general. Hybrid approaches to explanation lack coherence. So one may be stuck in Quine's web of belief, updating until the dinner bell sounds, and one is no longer sure what a "law of nature" truly is. Unless, that is, one admits the secret shame of science: it is an ever-growing Empire State Building of clarity built on a foundation of clouds. The metaphysical elements in explanation support our cathedral or mosque, and no matter how many times an exterminator like Ayer or Rorty show up, metaphysics keeps coming back, exactly like the cat in the song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mCHhXUtcWw Regards, Eric ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html