--- Begin Message ---
- From: JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:25 EST
<<That older men can use their position and influence to seduce a younger
woman can be dastardly caddish behavior, I'll grant you -- but not illegal or
necessarily immoral assuming the woman is of legal age. >>
"Position and influence" speaks of power; and power ... well, you know....
Julie Krueger
========Original Message======== Subj: [lit-ideas] Re: Don't Stand So
Close to Me Date: 1/28/2007 5:47:04 P.M. Central Standard Time From:
_atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) To:
_lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) Sent on:
JK:
>>And if the girl/woman doesn't have a choice?
Choice as to what? Sexual activity? Then it's rape or at minimum sexual
assualt. If it's with a girl, then it's statutory rape, whether she chooses
to or not. Why do you ask such a question? Is there something in my post
that suggests I approve of men "having their way" with women? I don't
understand.
Mike Geary
Memphis
----- Original Message -----
From: _JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxxx (mailto:JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx)
To: _lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 5:28 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Don't Stand So Close to Me
And if the girl/woman doesn't have a choice?
Julie Krueger
========Original Message======== Subj: [lit-ideas] Re: Don't Stand So
Close to Me Date: 1/28/2007 4:29:06 P.M. Central Standard Time From:
_atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) To:
_lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) Sent on:
A.A:
>> Sexual pleasure with an older man as opposed to someone her own age?
You have to be kidding.<<
It seems to me that where and with whom a woman seeks her pleasure is her
business, not yours. If she prefers older men or younger men or mean men or
black men or red men or even white men, or rich men or cowboys or gay cowboys,
then that's her business. That older men can use their position and
influence to seduce a younger woman can be dastardly caddish behavior, I'll
grant you
-- but not illegal or necessarily immoral assuming the woman is of legal
age. Women, like men, can behave in strange ways. Ask any rock 'n roll
star.
Many women are drawn like moths to the bright lights of success. Why else
would men seek out success? For men, at least, it's all about sex, Andy. I
hate to tell you that, but it's time you knew. Everything a man does, he does
for pussy -- well, about ten per cent do it for dick -- Freudian? No. More
Heffnerian. I've yet to find any male behavior that can't ultimately be
reduced to the desire to fuck. And I stand four square against Reductionism!
It's an extremely complex universe, after all -- except when it comes to male
motivations. And I personally find nothing wrong with that. I find it
amusing to realize that I'm writing this right now in hopes I'll get laid down
the road.
Omar in his post informed me that the student he was writing about was not,
like my student, 15 years old, but a college student and that she was not
inexperienced in things sexual, to which you responded: " Not inexperienced is
sometimes known as sexual abuse of children." My question is what the hell
does that have to do with anything? If you want to preach against sexual
abuse of children, then start up an new thread. I'll support you in that. I
can name priests' names. : ) Who I wonder are you accusing of sexual abuse
of children -- Omar or me or both? I never touched my student (and today
we're good, close friends, she teaches theater in Montreal) and Omar's
student
certainly wasn't a child. So what was your point exactly? I understand that
you're opposed to child sexual abuse. So are we all. So are we all.
>> That's a clear power differential that speaks for itself I think, but, of
course, not to you. It must be nice to live in a world where things just
happen. Not happen for a reason, but just happen.<<
I have no idea where this is coming from or how you could draw that
conclusion from anything I've ever written.
>> By psychohistorians, but you don't believe in the unconscious, so why are
you bothering me? <<
Which psychohistorians? Names please. What do you mean I don't believe in
the unconscious? I've told you more than once that I believe first and
foremost in the unconscious, or subconscious, which, I assume, is what you
mean.
We live our subconsciously, consciousness is what we amuse ourselves with.
A.A. Someone who does no thinking would be envious, no surprise there.
A hit! A very palpable hit!
Mike Geary
Memphis
----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Amago
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 1:41 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Don't Stand So Close to Me
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Geary
Sent: Jan 28, 2007 12:15 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Don't Stand So Close to Me
As to Andy's comments:
> Not inexperienced is sometimes known as sexual abuse of children,
It's also sometimes (and far more commonly) known as "not inexperienced". I
dare say most college age women have some experience with sexual pleasure.
A sin, I know. And get this, not all children are sexually abused. I know
it will come as a shock to Andy, who has never raised a child, but in fact
most children are not sexually abused.
A.A. Sexual pleasure with an older man as opposed to someone her own age?
You have to be kidding. That's a clear power differential that speaks for
itself I think, but, of course, not to you. It must be nice to live in a
world where things just happen. Not happen for a reason, but just happen.
> Psychohistorically it's suggested that countries have "maturity levels".
Suggested by whom? Do you seriously believe that China lacks maturity?
In any case, what do you mean by "China"? China has 1.3 billion people in
it. Women were treated literally (literally) like nonentities before Mao
made everyone equal, which worked about as well as emancipating the slaves
here.
There's still much hatred against women in China. So, yes, the maturity
level there is not high generally speaking, or you can explain to me why women
need to be hated. Iris Chang talked about the things she saw done to women
in the provinces that can't be repeated on this list. Women in China's cities
are divorcing men like crazy and who can blame them?
Macho cultures are generally immature. Men who beat women are immature.
Women who hit men are immature. Boys are taught to be men by being beaten
(the
Boy Named Sue), so they will beat those smaller than themselves. That's
called macho. Machismo is a mask. Mexico is a macho culture, so yes,
generally, they're less mature than a nonmacho culture. Likewise Islamic
cultures
where women are obsessed over, "protected", which is to say, kept stuck to the
soles of men's shoes, are very immature. Immaturity is accompanied by a lot
of anger; what was the reaction to the cartoons? Western cultures are
somewhat more mature to the extent that there is more equality among sexes,
but
Western cultures did the schoolyard counterpart to the Islam rage by goading
it. We here in the U.S. took a huge step backwards with the invasion of Iraq,
but generally we treat children better, and women are now mostly equal, which
means we are more mature as a culture, yes. As we grow up we're taught that
we don't fight to solve problems (even as we're beaten in the teaching), but
how are we today solving problems? By declaring war. So, the world as a
very, very long way to go in the maturation process, but at least we've made
some progress here by recognizing child abuse as bad instead of the normal
it's
been for most of history and still is in much if not most of the world.
> Clearly those who need disparities and power differentials in marriages
are not at the high end of maturity.
Clearly? I envy Andy the clarity of his thinking.
A.A. Someone who does no thinking would be envious, no surprise there.
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