"Not so smart and not thought through and stubborn is arguably a combination that may resemble madness; it's also not a bad definition of ideologue." I meant, of course, the neocons. I loved that poem by Robert Paul. I never quite got it how poetry writing is done. Lawrence, how did you start writing poetry? I have an idea. Can someone teach me to write poetry? I was in the polar bear class in the back of the room, so imagine the rewards. What say? Step number 1 in poetry writing is to: . Okay, well, never mind. I'll bet there's a Dummies book on it anyway. Ogama Ydna School of Expiration One might have talent with words or shapes or numbers, but one learns to be a poet or artist or musician. If Mozart had been adopted by a shipbuilder and not had a father who pushed him into music, would he have become who he was? Berryman was an alcoholic. His father was allegedly killed by his mother, or something along those lines. In other words, a very poor childhood. He was a very needy person, hence the alcohol. He killed himself about a year after he gave up drinking (if I remember correctly). I'm of the opinion that madness is not necessary for great art. It seems contradictory that one can be mad and still have the wherewithal to concern one's self with meter and rhyme and structure and images. I think what most people consider madness is really emotional pain. Also, how do you explain people like Jane Austin, Alexander Pope? Madness is unfortunately reserved for politics, and not always so controlled ... Even there, we need to define madness. Sociopat hs such as Stalin was, are not mad. They're usually charming in fact. People who are truly mad by definition don't function at a high level. Not so smart and not thought through and stubborn is arguably a combination that may resemble madness; it's also not a bad definition of ideologue. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence Helm To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: 9/20/2006 8:47:59 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Poetry and Madness So the trick for the poet, it seems to me, is to cultivate the madness in such a way as to wring decent poetry out of it without letting it gain possession. Lawrence