[lit-ideas] Re: A German View of the American Election
- From: "Donal McEvoy" <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> (Redacted sender "donalmcevoyuk" for DMARC)
- To: "lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2016 08:00:57 +0000 (UTC)
How can America be damaging democracy if we just held a democratic election
and are willing to abide by the results?>
Some questions.
What is the current best defence for the electoral college system as being
"democratic" as opposed to judging the election by who got the most votes from
individual voters?
Is it not questionable, and even absurd, that the Presidential candidate with
'most votes from the voters' loses because these are not translated into a
majority in terms of the electoral college? How is this now defensible (it may
have been defensible in 1776 of course when individual voters might not even
know who the candidates were, never mind much about them - and so entrusted
their 'vote' to a representative to cast for them in an electoral college - but
does this make it more than an anachronism?)? Quite clearly it means that the
votes of individual citizens are not of equal weight in deciding the outcome -
how is that "democratic"? (To be clear, the fact the individual's vote has some
weight is somewhat democratic - but the absence of 'equal weight' to each vote
is surely somewhat, and perhaps seriously, undemocratic.)
Clinton appears likely to have won the 'popular vote' yet the loser of the
'popular vote' becomes President? Explain and defend this in terms of what a
"democratic election" for President should be achieving?
The defence has to be better than "'the present arrangement' suits my party" or
that "both parties can be (unfairly) advantaged by the present arrangement".
This is not a left/right issue, it seems to me, but an issue about the
character of democracy that cuts across left and right allegiance.
Trump made much of rigged systems. He's been quiet so far about the most
blatant rigging of all in the system.
DL
From: Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, 9 November 2016, 18:22
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: A German View of the American Election
Some interesting comments although I'm not sure what is meant here by
"damaging democracy." How can America be damaging democracy if we just
held a democratic election and are willing to abide by the results? I
can't help but suspect that what is meant by this term is the
Welfare-statism that is under attack in Europe by those who don't agree
with the non-democratic decisions being made in Brussels.
Then too I think that Bush's attacks were against extremists in an
already destabilized Middle East. He may have been naive in thinking he
could stabilize the region, but it seemed reasonable at the time to take
some sort of action to discourage attacks against the West. Of course
there were many at the time who supported the "stabilization" of Saddam
Hussein. Many politicians on the other hand couldn't do that with a
straight face.
As to the weakening of the U.S. and Western Europe, there are many who
blame EU-type policies (policies which Obama also subscribed to) for
that, especially the practice of experimental regulations not designed
to protect the livelihoods of ordinary citizens. Mistrust of these
"democratic" policies gave rise to Brexit and during the political
discussions yesterday I heard a British reporter who was covering the
U.S. election say he saw a relationship between Brexit and Trump. The
dissatisfaction with Welfare (Democratic?) policies gave rise to
policies and people who would oppose them.
I haven't been interested in politics in recent years but I have to
admit that I found what happened yesterday very interesting. Some of the
German comments seem naive. Trump is a president not an emperor or a
dictator. If he takes actions that are unlawful he can be impeached.
If his political acumen turns out to be deficient, he can be removed
from office in four years. But the sorts of things he spoke of, such as
lowering corporate income tax (we apparently have the highest such tax
in the world) so that corporations will be willing to keep their
activities (and consequent jobs) here in the U.S. are policies many
blue-collar workers appreciate. Trump also excoriated the Bush and
Clinton wars saying he wouldn't be engaging in that sort of thing. In
fact some see an implied Isolationism. And in view of this, I would
think the reverse would be a more legitimate fear, that is, that a war
would start, say by Russia, that would threaten some EU nations and
rather than step in as the U.S. has been willing to do in the past,
Trump keeps his hands in his pockets and says, "good luck over there."
Lawrence
On 11/9/2016 12:29 AM, epostboxx@xxxxxxxx wrote:
The following commentary appeared on Monday (i.e., BEFORE the election) on
the English website of Germany’s leading newsmagazine. I offer it as a prime
example of German thinking about the state of democracy in America.
(NOTE: I myself an NOT German, and my view is not quite so dark — but I feel
the article gives a good account of many Germans’ fear of populism in the
U.S. — and in the democratic process in general — and indicates well from
where that fear arises.)
America’s Election Is Damaging Democracy - SPIEGEL ONLINE November 07, 2016
11:06 PM
"There used to be an American sense of comfort in transformation, in change,
in the pendulum's eternal swing. It was an American certainty: Even if the
present is dreary and gray, there would still be the future, and the future
would be bright.
"But there was more than that -- this age-old American attitude that anyone
can take charge of their destiny at any time. If you don't like your job, you
just quit. If you don't like the East Coast, you move out west. You thought
George W. Bush was the worst president since 1945? No worries -- there are
term limits, after all, and a Barack Obama can always come along.
"Such was the thinking of millions of people in the United States -- even
among political scientists and historians. It was perhaps a childish view --
the idea that opportunity would always be there because lasting failure and
destruction was something that could only happen elsewhere. A Germany that
triggered and lost World War II is incapable of that kind of thinking. But
for an America that has long been pleased with itself, optimism about life
was the default setting.
"The fear, though, is new. Fear of social decline, of all things foreign and
even of progress.
"So, too, are the errors, and there have been far too many of them.
"How, for example, could the Democratic Party have allowed itself to arrive
at this level of dependency on the Clintons -- how could it have slumped into
such dynastic thinking? Everyone in the party knows that Hillary Clinton was
strong in her campaign against Obama eight years ago -- and they know that
she is no longer strong today. Instead, she's frozen, someone who has been
around for what feels like an eternity. She still doesn't grasp her 2008
defeat and this time wants to prevail in her aspiration. It is reckless for a
party to push through a weak candidate purely out of principle. And how sad
it is that few are still speaking of this wonderful goal, of finally -- after
43 men -- shattering possibly the last remaining glass ceiling by electing
the first female president. There is no more passion or lightness in the
Clinton camp -- just panic, fear that the most absurd opponent seen in the
past 100 years cannot be defeated.
"How could the entire country have allowed the democracy for which it stands
to fall into this degree of decline? Years ago, two ranting men emerged at
the margins of society with a format called "talk radio": Rush Limbaugh and
Glenn Beck. Americans have always been addicted to entertainment and that
helped allow these two stars to enter the mainstream. And little by little,
mainstream society began resembling them. Hateful. Self-righteous.
Intolerant. Frightened. Loud. And disdainful of all that seemed too distant:
education, ideas, industriousness. The US became a dysfunctional country that
was no longer capable of debate, barely capable of making or sticking to
decisions and one that had lost that which had once been its source of
strength -- and it found nothing new to replace it, at least nothing novel
and good. Were this a company, the diagnosis would be as follows: management
has abandoned the core brand and botched the restructuring process;
bankruptcy is around the corner.
"The entire American democracy has also become an endless show, because CNN
and other broadcasters are thirsty for breaking news every hour to ensure
good ratings and advertising. Even lies pay off and are thus desired -- the
result being that, after 18 months of campaigning, 50 percent of those
eligible to vote, 100 million people, still do not know today where Trump and
Clinton stand on policy. Instead, people scream "Lock Her Up" and "Build the
Wall" as soon as Trump takes the stage. Good politicians don't play along
with such nonsense.
"And no, it's hardly worth saying anything more about the man. How could the
Republicans ever have elevated a candidate like Trump to their throne, one so
self-absorbed, so misogynistic, so racist and so unqualified? At the very
least, the Republican Party has earned its own downfall.
"On Tuesday, voting will finally be complete, but there will be no solace --
only, we can hope, the lesser of two evils. Things won't automatically return
to normal. Indeed, the American pendulum theory was always naïve because
history never starts over from scratch. The 2000 election, decided by the
Supreme Court, gave us George W. Bush who, after Sept. 11, attacked
Afghanistan and later Iraq, leading to the destabilization of the Middle
East, the fall of Libya, Iraq and Syria, to Islamic State, to Turkish and
Egyptian dictatorships, to the refugee crisis, Brexit, Marine Le Pen, Nigel
Farage, Frauke Petry and Trump, to the weakening of America and Europe. To
the weakening of the West and liberal democracy.
"The relationship between these events is not causal, of course. But
elections and political action have consequences, as we in Germany well know.
And the same could happen in America -- it could commit one irreversible
error too many."
Chris Bruce,
on a very clear and
cold morning, in
Kiel,
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