Hi all, I do not weigh in on liblouis very often these days. However I cannot
help myself. ASCII Math is, well ASCII and should be just as understandable to
a blind person as to a sighted person. Abe Nemeth and Tim Cranmer would turn
over in their graves at the idea that ASCII Math needs translation at all. What
am I missing?
John
From: liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Michael McDonald
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2022 1:27 PM
To: liblouis-liblouisxml@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [liblouis-liblouisxml] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: ASCII Math Table
The big issue I'm looking at when dealing with ASCII math translation is the
extra parentheses added by ASCII math itself. UEB is pretty straightforward
because you have general fraction opening, closing and line, so the same type
of grouping symbols aren't needed. For example in ASCII Math, (1+2)/3 needs
the extra parentheses in the numerator, even though they wouldn't be needed
either in Braille or in MathML. I've been reading over the opcodes especially
the multi pass opcodes to try and decide if they could handle a case such as
this. I could create a pre and post processor that would deal with the Unicode
equivalents of the general fraction opening, closing, and line, but I would
like to do it with just Liblouis if possible.
Regarding the grade 1 indicators, that was just an area I noticed when trying
to translate different Braille examples from the UEB Tutorial. I noticed as you
get further in the lessons you begin to see more and more examples of the grade
1 word and passage indicator.
Thanks,
Mike
________________________________
From:
liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
on behalf of James Bowden
<James.Bowden@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:James.Bowden@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2022 4:53 AM
To:
liblouis-liblouisxml@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:liblouis-liblouisxml@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<liblouis-liblouisxml@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:liblouis-liblouisxml@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Subject: [liblouis-liblouisxml] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: ASCII Math Table
Hi Bert, Mike,
May I ask, was there any follow-up to the meeting we all had about mathematics
support in Liblouis a little while ago?
We talked about the list of special furniture signs needed for mathematical
constructs.
We also talked about separating out the input maths code from the Liblouis part.
Do we need a follow-up meeting to set next steps and who's doing what?
For fractions such as:
x plus 2, all over y minus 3,
there is no need for additional brackets in UEB. Correct output for this is:
⠰⠷⠭⠐⠖⠼⠃⠨⠌⠽⠐⠤⠼⠉⠾
Notice a single grade 1 symbol indicator is also sufficient here.
x squared plus 2 all over y minus 3:
Correct UEB braille is:
⠰⠰⠷⠭⠔⠼⠃⠐⠖⠼⠃⠨⠌⠽⠐⠤⠼⠉⠾
Notice now a grade 1 word indicator is needed, but still no brackets.
Finally:
1 + fraction x squared plus 2 all over y minus 3
UEB is:
⠼⠁⠐⠖⠷⠭⠔⠼⠃⠐⠖⠼⠃⠨⠌⠽⠐⠤⠼⠉⠾
Now, no grade 1 indicators are needed because of the number out front.
I could go on with further examples... but the number and position of grade 1
indicators depends on what signs are used and whether a number occurs.
I trust this helps.
With best regards,
James.
From:
liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
On Behalf Of Bert Frees
Sent: 13 May 2022 09:24
To:
liblouis-liblouisxml@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:liblouis-liblouisxml@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [liblouis-liblouisxml] Re: ASCII Math Table
Hi Mike,
Very happy to hear this news. I'm sure it will be a challenge and I don't know
if it can be done without changes to Liblouis itself, but I'm happy to work with
you to make the table a success because it will be a very useful addition.
But first I need to understand the requirements a bit better.
I see support for the symbol grade 1 indicator, but not the word or passage
indicator.
a numerator with multiple terms such as x+2 will need to have parentheses
added around the numerator, but not if it is a single term
I'm working on an ASCII Math table for UEB and have a couple of questions.
I'm new to table development so I still don't have my head wrapped around all
of concepts and opcodes. I'm looking at forward and backwards translations.
Looking at the current UEB tables, I see support for the symbol grade 1
indicator, but not the word or passage indicator. Would these additions be
possible with the current opcodes, or would this require changes to Liblouis
itself?
Currently one of the biggest areas I'm running into some issues with is
complex and nested fractions. For example, a numerator with multiple terms
such as x+2 will need to have parentheses added around the numerator, but not
if it is a single term. I could always do some post processing by using
fraction begin and end indicators but was wondering if this would be possible
to do with Liblouis. Does anyone have an ideas how this might be achieved?
Thanks,
Mike
